Firstly, let me say that I am not homophobic in the slightest. Whatever someone wants to be is absolutely none of my business, and I respect people for what they are.

However, I don't really want homosexuality rammed down my throat whilst watching a sci-fi series. I could understand it if the program I was watching was Queer as Folk...but this is a Doctor Who spin-off!

I have no problems with homosexuals, but personally I don't really want to see two men kissing - being a hetrosexual I find the this quite repulsive. Why should I have to endure blokes kissing each other just because the producer of the series is gay? What does science fiction have to do with homosexuality? Maybe i wouldn't mind so much if this wasn't a DW spinoff. Would the TV networks in the US introduce gay storylines into the next Star Trek spin-off - I don't think so!

I respect RTD for making such a good job of bringing back Doctor Who and creating Torchwood, but why does he have to give a gay agenda to them? There's plenty of room for that sort of thing in his other TV shows.

I smell a troll.

There's a whiff of homophobia about that...

Conversely you could say "What does science fiction have to do with heterosexualty?". If you're going to have an adult series, with sex scenes, rude jokes and snogging, why not gay as well as straight?

I am not a homophobe BUT......

Good lord - how many more tedious threads on this subject?

Never an encouraging start to a post.


Yep. You said that.


Here we go...


It's clear that you do have a problem with homosexuals, but if the sight of two people kissing fills you with such disgust then don't watch Torchwood.

My elder brothers are fatter than me, and more satisfying for a feast. Let me pass over the bridge safely and you can eat them instead!

Well I'm a gay man and see straight people kissing on telly practically every day. can't say it offends or disgusts me though.

If something as simple as a kiss offends you I'm surprised people being stabbed and shot does not.

We need more gay relationships on telly, but the problem with the gay stuff in TW is that it is so forced and ridiculous that almost every character gets it on with someone of the same sex. At the point RTD did that, it kind of killed it

I think the show needs a token straight guy ...


....Torchwood could go really out there and actually make him a married straight guy who would stay completely faithful to his wife throughout the shows run.

It would also be an interesting dynamic to have a member of the team who concentrated on completing a mission rather than being distracted by flirting/having sex.

Well it's television isn't it, everything is multiplied by a factor of ten for the sake of storytelling.

Personally I feel the same way about divorce on television.

I am aware that people get divorced, around 25% of marriages end in divorce last time I heard (it may be as high as 33% by now). Of the 20+ married couples in my life I could name off the top of my head, only two got divorced.

But from watching television it would seem that the divorce rate was around 80% if not more. If you only watched detective shows and soaps you'd think it was 100%. When I last saw Eastenders (some years back granted) I don't think there was a single person on the square who hadn't been divorced at some point in their adult life. And if there was a married couple then one of them would be having an affair.

Totally unrepresentative of real life, but it adds "dramatic tension" and is a useful tool for scriptwriters.

Umm, now I feel I may have given a possible troll too much of my time...

I didn't have a problem the first time there was a gay kiss in "Captain Jack Harkness", but why does it have to happen so often? I've heard rumours that there is a lot more to come in series 2. Surely there is more to Torchwood than that. Perhaps Listentome has highlighted the real problem that "the gay stuff in TW is that it is so forced and ridiculous that almost every character gets it on with someone of the same sex. At the point RTD did that, it kind of killed it".

What I don't like is that in this age of political correctness, people are becoming afraid to say what they really think. I expected people to accuse me of being anti-homosexual, but I think many of you are missing the point.

OK there are a lot of "Heterosexual" relationships in Eastenders. Yet do you have hear anyone say. "Did you watch eastenders last night? Too much straight innuendo for my liking."

The fact is as someone has mentioned in another one of these threads (Cant say which as there are so many :yawn that torchwood is showing a new concept that the Hero is bisexual. So is ianto you may argue (Bi-sexual). Gwen and Owen are both Heterosexual. It appeard Tosh was just experimenting with her sexualty. So hardly OTT in my eyes.

So as its a new thing of course its going to stand out and appear forced.

No sorry. I think you are missing the point. From the start Torchwood was created with characters who were very open to different ideas about sexuality. Captain Jack was clearly, from his introduction in Doctor Who "omnisexual" - a man who would shag anything.

At times in the first series the sex and so called "gay agenda" did feel shoe horned in and didn't always fit with actual plot of some of the episodes.

Last night's episode was about an ex lover/rival coming back into his life - hence the gay kissing to establish firmly this back story.

If you don't like seeing men kissing on tv I suggest you don't watch the series anymore.

As far as I'm aware, the fact that everyone gets it on with everyone regardless of their sex was to make the issue of sexuality moot. I would expect that some of the characters - likely Toshiko, Owen and Gwen would associate themselves as "straight", despite having had (up to this point) one canonical encounter with the same sex. Conversely, Jack chides Owen for our "silly little categories". I suspect that it's an attempt to show sexuality is fluid, and that one is no more normal than any other.

I would bet that the majority of the gay kissing etc in the remaining episodes of this series will be between Jack and Ianto, and as a blossoming relationship, that makes sense.

I'd also bet that, given we saw Toshiko kissing a man in the "Coming Up" spoiler, and the fact Gwen and Rhys are getting married, there will be a fair amount of straight kissing, too.

Honestly. You're obsessed.

Do you mind when David Tennant is kissing all of his female co-stars? Because I don't really see the difference.

That irritates the hell out of me. Just seems a cheap way to get headlines in the press over the last few years. Oooh look the Doctor is kissing someone, lets take a picture and put it in The Sun.

As far as I can see most of the kissing in Who and Torchword is either for shock value or press coverage (or both). It adds little to the show itself. I just roll my eyes when it happens these days as I just see it as obvious pandering to the press or the people who fancy the actor. It always seems forced into the script.

I'm not gay, but I love Russell T Davies and John Barrowman as much as I do David and Freema. They're just great people, who have so much passion for both shows, and who make a good team together, and I've never judged them because of their sexuality. Gay and lesbian relationships are as much part of the real world as crime, history, fear etc (elements which thrive in both shows), so therefore I have no problem with them being in Torchwood and Doctor Who. It's 2008 for goodness sake.....I can't believe there are still people out there who can't accept gays and lesbians.

It always makes me laugh when people say that there shouldn't be gay people in sci-fi. Why not? There are straight people in sci-fi, the only reason I think of it that sci-fi is usually aimed at men but DW an TW aren't.


Why does the straight stuff have to happen so often? It's only episode one and already Gwen is both engaged and looking for another affair.

I don't like having homosexuality rammed down my throat either - at least not while I'm sober.

If gay people can tolerate straights kissing then it *should* work both ways.

But if it offends your sensitivities - look away....

LOL!

Exactly. To me that fit the story perfectly. Maybe it was just Spike being there, but it did remind me of the Buffy finale when Buffy and Angel kiss upon first seeing each other without saying a word. It was all about the emotion of seeing a past love(r). No one complained about that - well I did because I wanted her to be with Spike, but anyway...

The point is none of the kissing last night felt gratuitous to me. And personally I think all the sexual tension and innuendos is half the fun of the show. And for me that's what Torchwood is - fun!

i actually spoke to a my gay brother on the phone 2day and he said that even he felt it was over the top, and while he is every bit for having homosexuality on tv, not in a way that makes homosexuals sex-crazed teenager. Pretty much evryone i spoke to felt the same

If it had enchanced the story line I could understand, but it didnt not even in the slightest, the jack asking ianto on a date was good, but the rest pathetic.

Must also add i dont see the so called gay agenda in dr who, but you couldnt exactly miss it last night.

I must add that as a fully-fledged gay myself... yeah, I don't get the fuss. The whole storyline of the episode seems to have come from John being Jack's ex - the fact he recruited the team was due to "expectations" he might have had that Jack would help him. I don't think the question should be "was it too gay?" at all - the sex of Jack, John, or indeed Ianto are irrespective of the plot. What were important were the relationships. Had John been Joan, it'd have been the same dynamic, it was just decided to give Jack a male ex. We saw one of Jack's female exes in series one, the episode "Small Worlds".

Yet strangely I don't recall a major snog-fest when they reunited.