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BBC breach of Broadcast Copyright (TV show clips) - Aggedor.com


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Old 31-01-2008, 09:05
Dojjen
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http://www.aggedor.com

In order to protect the material produced by BBC (and in this instance BBC WALES) fan websites should be aware that using video clips - not released via YOU TUBE, which is now the official release location including "embedding" - on fan sites is illegal (worldwide).

BBC anti-piracy is clamping down. The same goes for HARRY POTTER (Warner Brothers) video clips too.

Perhaps, fan websites could avoid BBC action by removing all material.

Please, DOCTOR WHO fans should avoid giving "site traffic" to these sites.

Polite notice.
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Old 31-01-2008, 09:24
stud u like
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http://www.aggedor.com

In order to protect the material produced by BBC (and in this instance BBC WALES) fan websites should be aware that using video clips - not released via YOU TUBE, which is now the official release location including "embedding" - on fan sites is illegal (worldwide).

BBC anti-piracy is clamping down. The same goes for HARRY POTTER (Warner Brothers) video clips too.

Perhaps, fan websites could avoid BBC action by removing all material.

Please, DOCTOR WHO fans should avoid giving "site traffic" to these sites.

Polite notice.
Why?

In this day of age,surely is better to show appreciation to such a great show?

It gets people out buying DVDs.

The BBC should stop being so facist. After all,I have paid for it!
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Old 31-01-2008, 10:40
Weigh-Man
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Yes, you have paid for it. But video sites like youtube are available to the rest of the world, who haven't paid for it.

Seems fair to me
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Old 31-01-2008, 11:03
mossy2103
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Why?

In this day of age,surely is better to show appreciation to such a great show?

It gets people out buying DVDs.

The BBC should stop being so facist. After all,I have paid for it!
a) The copyright agreements do not normally include such distribution/content channels, therefore the artists do not get any payment. The BBC is acting entirely within the law/their legal obligations.

b) You have paid (via the TV Licence) to watch the programme on broadcast TV, NOT via any other medium such as DVD
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Old 31-01-2008, 14:05
steven1977
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Because their selfish. Its not as if its a full episode just a 30 sec clip dont hurt but no the BBC are so arrogant these days bumping up license fees etc! Next thing they ll be doing is making it illegal to post pics from dr who stories or even mentioning the name! The world is so corrupt nowadays.
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Old 31-01-2008, 14:15
The Phazer
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Next thing they ll be doing is making it illegal to post pics from dr who stories or even mentioning the name!
Taking stills and giving them to other people without the broadcaster's permission is illegal, and has been since the invention of broadcasting.

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Old 31-01-2008, 16:12
Yoonix
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I see nothing wrong with fans using short clips of their favourite BBC show, particularly if they're being creative with it. How else would we get spoofs like the French Dalek?
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Old 31-01-2008, 16:17
stud u like
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Yes, you have paid for it. But video sites like youtube are available to the rest of the world, who haven't paid for it.

Seems fair to me
Yes but it also widens the audience. It could generate money for the BBC.

If I want to show my friends in the USA or Europe what Doctor Who is all about I show sites suitable to them.
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Old 31-01-2008, 20:55
Alrightmate
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a) The copyright agreements do not normally include such distribution/content channels, therefore the artists do not get any payment. The BBC is acting entirely within the law/their legal obligations.

b) You have paid (via the TV Licence) to watch the programme on broadcast TV, NOT via any other medium such as DVD


Your TV license covers watching TV on your computer.

So I don't really see what their problem is. All people are doing is watching clips of the show on computer as opposed to on their TV. It's just another method of delivery.

People put clips on youtube because they think the show is good, and pass the message onto others via word of mouth.
You'd think the BBC would be glad for the free advertising.
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:01
steven1977
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[/b]

Your TV license covers watching TV on your computer.

So I don't really see what their problem is. All people are doing is watching clips of the show on computer as opposed to on their TV. It's just another method of delivery.

People put clips on youtube because they think the show is good, and pass the message onto others via word of mouth.
You'd think the BBC would be glad for the free advertising.
Yeah but they wont! BBC has got full of themselves recently ignoring what fans want released on DVD and they will soon say mentioning dr who on a website is copyrighted cos they own the name.
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Old 01-02-2008, 14:36
mossy2103
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[/b]

Your TV license covers watching TV on your computer.
Broadcast at the same time, or via iPlayer, it does not cover (as in pay for) commercial DVD releases (which was the point at issue).



So I don't really see what their problem is. All people are doing is watching clips of the show on computer as opposed to on their TV. It's just another method of delivery.
It is not a method of delivery that has been sanctioned by the BBC in this case, more down to issues surrounding copyright than anything else.



People put clips on youtube because they think the show is good, and pass the message onto others via word of mouth.
Doesn't make it legal, nor does it make it OK within any specific copyright agreements.

You'd think the BBC would be glad for the free advertising.
I suppose on that basis you could argue that illegal torrent downloads of software packages are good advertising, and may make people want to purchase a legal copy?
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Old 01-02-2008, 16:41
jy1541
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I suppose on that basis you could argue that illegal torrent downloads of software packages are good advertising, and may make people want to purchase a legal copy?
Hardly the same thing. For one, we're talking about watching clips on websites like YouTube, not downloading the full programme. Besides, if you download a software package instead of purchasing it, you are doing the company out of money What harm is done to the BBC if you watch a clip on that site rather than YouTube?
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Old 01-02-2008, 16:52
Sharon87
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I think the harm is that people won't buy the DVDs (when they come out) if they can access it on Youtube, or parts of it they want. I know people who post whole episodes of tv series on Youtube in different parts.
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Old 01-02-2008, 16:59
jy1541
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I think the harm is that people won't buy the DVDs (when they come out) if they can access it on Youtube, or parts of it they want. I know people who post whole episodes of tv series on Youtube in different parts.
Well the issue the OP has is that people are watching the clips on 'Aggedor' instead of YouTube.
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Old 01-02-2008, 17:06
mossy2103
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Hardly the same thing.
I used the term on that basis advisedly.

For one, we're talking about watching clips on websites like YouTube, not downloading the full programme. Besides, if you download a software package instead of purchasing it, you are doing the company out of money What harm is done to the BBC if you watch a clip on that site rather than YouTube?
Except that the principle still applies (and that ignores the fact that, for some programmes at least, the whole programme IS available in 8-min segments on YT, illegally of course).

As for watching a clip on the BBC site - copyright will have been agreed with the interested parties (artists, actors, etc). In essence, it's all down to

1) Copyright legalities

2) Protection of future sales (and the attendant copyright/royalty payments)

3) Creative control (over the use of clips, logos, pictures etc).
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Old 01-02-2008, 17:59
Alrightmate
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Broadcast at the same time, or via iPlayer, it does not cover (as in pay for) commercial DVD releases (which was the point at issue).




I suppose on that basis you could argue that illegal torrent downloads of software packages are good advertising, and may make people want to purchase a legal copy?
No, commercial DVD releases weren't the point at issue at all. .
The point in issue was about clips.

Yes, I could argue that illegal torrent downloads of software packages are good advertising. (Not that I'm condoning it).
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Old 01-02-2008, 18:07
mossy2103
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No, commercial DVD releases weren't the point at issue at all. .
Well, it was in a way (especially in the apparent widening of the discussion) , as stud u like (who's post I was replying to) stated

The BBC should stop being so facist. After all,I have paid for it!

The point being that no-one has paid for anything other than the right to watch broadcast TV (however widely defined at present). Clips, DVDs and any other medium appearing elsewhere have not been already paid for. BBC licence payers do not own any actual content by way of that licence fee, and therefore have no real rights (implied or otherwise) over that content.
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Old 01-02-2008, 18:10
Alrightmate
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I see nothing wrong with fans using short clips of their favourite BBC show, particularly if they're being creative with it. How else would we get spoofs like the French Dalek?
I agree. I've seen many Doctor Who fan videos where the creators obviously have much affection for the show and the show inspires them to be creative.
I've looked at the forum on Outpost Gallifrey which deals with fan art and video, music etc. and there is a buzz of creativity going on. It promotes the show and keeps the fan buzz going.
If you limit the freedom people have to source and reference material I think you ultimately kill that buzz from fans, and the power of word of mouth promotion that fan creativity gives for the show is seriously diminished.

There's somebody on here who loves the show and is developing their animation skills and doing some lovely little animations. To tell him (NAF) that they can only buy commercial DVD's off them in order to use reference material would be more discouraging and put a curtail on creativity and a sense of fun with the fan enjoyment of the show.

People sharing little clips in fandom aren't doing it for profit.
Ripping DVD releases and selling them on for personal profit is something entirely different in my opinion.
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Old 01-02-2008, 18:18
Yoonix
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Perhaps it's in the BBC's remit to stifle opposition and creativity?
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Old 01-02-2008, 18:27
mossy2103
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Perhaps it's in the BBC's remit to stifle opposition and creativity?
Perhaps it's in the remit of Statute and the lawmakers (nationally AND globally) to stifle opposition and creativity?

Perhaps some laws, royalty agreements (and some Corporate Lawyers) need to change somewhat for the new web technologies, but in the meantime the laws are there, so are the royalty agreements.
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Old 01-02-2008, 18:40
Alrightmate
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Well, it was in a way (especially in the apparent widening of the discussion) , as stud u like (who's post I was replying to) stated

The BBC should stop being so facist. After all,I have paid for it!

The point being that no-one has paid for anything other than the right to watch broadcast TV (however widely defined at present). Clips, DVDs and any other medium appearing elsewhere have not been already paid for. BBC licence payers do not own any actual content by way of that licence fee, and therefore have no real rights (implied or otherwise) over that content.
Maybe 'stud u like' was talking about paying for it via his TV license.

Anyway, it's obvious that people are talking about clips and the like, it's not about DVDs, the OP doesn't even mention DVDs, it just mentions 'material'.

I think they're being a bit stuck up and officious about this.
Instead of Doctor Who being 'just a bit of fun', the image comes across as being cold and corporate.
I think they're making a mountain out of a molehill by trying to make fan clips out to be such a problem. Do they seriously think fans using DW material for their own creative expression is a serious threat to their multi-national profit margins?

It's like they're trying to show off how powerful and omnipotent they are.
How many British TV shows seriously give a flying fart about fans sharing little clips with each other?
Any other show like Harry Hill or Charlie Brooker, people just upload the clips for others to watch and be entertained have a bit of a giggle. It's affection for those respective shows and does good for the show in promoting a sense of goodwill and a happy feeling about the show.

This by the beeb is just like Orwell's Big Brother where it's about power and control and exerting power over people.
It's a fuss about nothing as far as I'm concerned.
It's just them trying to show off how big and powerful they are by telling people what they can or can't do. They've gotten too big for their boots.
If people are just ripping DVDs and selling them on to make a profit, then yes I can understand that being a problem to them. But the amount of people making money from little clips must be absolutely miniscule and barely register as a blip.

This stance by them just comes across as arrogant and trying to show off their omnipotence and power they feel.
These little fan clips can't seriously be an issue to them,....unless they've completely disappeared up their own arse. They're just coming across to me as cold callous barstewards who don't really understand why people share clips of TV shows with each other.
It's a community thing, not a money thing. It's about promoting goodwill and happy feelings between each other about the show, unlike the Beeb here who appear to be wanting to spread a feeling of cold, miserable, corporate officiousness by exerting authority over innocent fans of the show.

Fan clips are about creativity, fun, and community. The BBC either don't understand that due to being blinded by complete corporate cynicism where they think everything has to be about money, or they are so arrogant about the success of the show that they will coldly stamp their authority over it's show's fans just because it thinks it can.
Probably the latter...because they didn't seem to be too bothered before the new Doctor Who series relaunched when they sold DVDs and whatnot of the classic Doctor Who series, there was tons of fan-stuff flying around before the new series. This officious approach appears to have been adopted since the success of the new series.
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Old 01-02-2008, 18:58
Yoonix
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Does seem like a move that could backfire on them and just cause more resentment.
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Old 01-02-2008, 19:45
Sharon87
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I interpret the news as you cannot put clips straight from the episodes on websites, but fan videos, where you can rarely here the sound of the clips may be allowed. Afterall it's not as if fan made music videos tell the story, they create their own story using clips from the show.

I think that seems fair if that's what they mean.
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Old 01-02-2008, 22:48
carl.waring
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Yeah but they wont! BBC has got full of themselves recently ignoring what fans want released on DVD and they will soon say mentioning dr who on a website is copyrighted cos they own the name.
The former is simply a "rights" issue while the latter is plain and simply a load of rubbish.
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Old 02-02-2008, 02:40
JCR
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Yeah but they wont! BBC has got full of themselves recently ignoring what fans want released on DVD and they will soon say mentioning dr who on a website is copyrighted cos they own the name.
The dvd release policy is quite sensible, they don't want to be left with nothing but rubbish to release at the end, like the vhs range did.
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