I've got a batch of Verbatim -R which were fine with the EZ25 but now the machine gives me the UNSUPPORTED message.

They're fine on my other Panny and if I finalise them on it they're fine in the EZ25! Two of my RAM discs are also getting the "CANNOT READ" message when previously they've been ok. They also work in the other machine.

The start of bigger woes to come?

Possibly.

When the machine tries to initialise these discs, is there any grinding noise?

Yes! Followed by what sounds like a fan kicking into action for a couple of seconds.

OK... There's a fix for this if you are brave enough to open your machine... and careful.

You need to get into the drive section and remove the top.

When a disk is in the drive, it is clamped by a magnetic plate onto a small rotating disc platform about the size of a large coin.
That platform has a small flat rubber ring around its edge which is meant to grip the disc.

That rubber ring gets covered in very fine dust - dragged in by the fan - and loses it's 'tackiness' [ It tends to be almost white instead of black ]

The result is that when the platform arrests quickly to do a critical read/write operation, as typically occurs at initialisation, that ring loses grip and the momentum of the disc keeps it spinning for a second or two.

That is the cause of the noise.

The result is loss of laser lock and failed initialisation.

The simple remedy is to clean the ring.


The ideal substance for doing this is a fluid designed for improving the tack on print rollers [ 'Platenclens']

Normal cleaning fluids like Isopropanol or methylated spirit are probably best avoided as they tend to denature the rubber.

But frankly ANY cleaning will improve the problem ... A bit of fairy solution on a slightly damp sponge or even spit on a finger!

Good luck.

Sounds like fun! I shall give it a go.

It worked!
Many thanks Gavtech.

A Most helpful tip indeed I've had this problem with two different EZ25's. Following Gavtech's advice I opened one up this afternoon and wiped some dust off the offending ring. A marked improvement resulted.

I consider this issue to be a design flaw, does anyone know if newer models have the same issue?

We also have two Sony DVD players one of which is a surround sound unit (Dolby etc.) both several years old neither of which has ever had the slightest problem, anything to do with quality of design and build I wonder?

Players will not suffer from this particular problem.

They can of course end up with a fine dusting on the grip ring, but they generally have less control and processing and intelligence electronics and so do not require fans... and so do not continually pull in fine dust through the mechanism.

More importantly they do not have to go through the critical read/ write and calibration protocols that DVDR's have to when writing to discs.... and so those fierce acceleration and decelerations which cause the ring to lose grip are not encountered.

I'd be inclined to call it less a design flaw and more a design accident, that would be exceedingly difficult to mimic in testing.

I think the lesson has been learned and newer decks have these accelerations more carefully controlled, albeit I have no evidence for that other than just hearing the way they perform... and as yet I have not heard of the newer ranges suffering from this... but it may simply be a matter of time.

Just a few additional points... Each disc format has different read / write protocols and so the disc type has a strong bearing on this behaviour. RAM seem to be the worst [ and some RW types ] at exposing this problem.

Also, the problem can be put at bay to an extent by using the 'Silent mode' for high speed copying which significantly moderates the top speed of the disc and makes the slipping problem much less likely to occur.

My EZ25 had started to make this horrible grinding noise when readying a disk. Even one that had worked fine before and that read on an earlier model Panasonic DVD Recorder started to be a problem. Typically the grinding noise would stop after 20 seconds and I would get a "No Read" error.

For me the problem only appeared with DVD-RAM disks - but as I only use these (in double sided cartridge format) then it was a real problem. The problem started when the machine was about 9 months old but initially was not severe enough to take it back. A few months later it was failing on about 1 in 4 disk loads but by then out of warranty. So finding this forum note was really encouraging as I could no longer really use the machine unattended as recordings could fail as it might be unable to ready the disk on starting a timer recording.

When I opened it up I was a bit disappointed to only see a fine sprinkling of dust and not a white layer but cleaned it anyway. But put it all back together and so far not one disk has failed to load and no more grinding noise. Brilliant! Whole process took 10 minutes including disconnecting the unit and reconnecting it back up and without knowing exactly which screws to undo. Remember remove any disk from the drive before disconnecting power and leave the power disconnected throughout the exercise.

Also was getting a lesser version of the problem on a Panasonic ES-20 so did the same fix. That machine was 2 years old and there was less contamination of the rubber. But this was a bit more fiddly as I found removing the top of the drive needed the front fascia to be unclipped. I then ended up with a different mechanical vibration noise and so it took a few goes of repositioning the drive lid to fix that. But it may be I have a different problem here as even before opening it up I used to sometimes get the drive tray to fail to open or would then not close (without a little push).

Would be interesting to know if Panasonic see this as a design flaw and would repair out of warranty as I imagine that this problem will appear for most users over time who are DVD-RAM users. I found Gavtech's fix easier than trying to find out. Clearly they can fix it in warranty but having to make two visits to a repair shop is a lot more effort anyway.

Andy

Panasonic will not accept this issue of unrecognised/unreadable discs as a design flaw rather it is the end users fault for not using DVD's specially designed for use in TV Recorders which is what they told me when I complained about it. The instruction manual of course makes no mention of these special discs and says that the EZ25 will accept ±R ±RW and DVD RAM discs. I have found that it's quite fussy on brands and doesn't like Memorex at all, it's generally quite happy with TDK -RW and doesn't really like +RW discs at all although it will condescend to work with on occasionally.

A cheap DVD Recorder bought as an emergency back up machine quite happily accepts both ±RW discs without ant problem and interestingly will accept discs partially recorded on the Panasonic, futhermore discs recorded on this machine can be taken out and played on a standard DVD player without 'Finalizing' or making compatible in any special way.

I (and possibly several others) would be most interested to know the make and model of this very compatible machine!
Alan

It's a cheapo from Argos
Note it does not hava Freeview built in but will happily record from a Freeview (or cable) STB.

Thanks Martytoo, and thanks Gavtech for the detailed explanation of this problem - and the fix.
Panasonic may not admit this is a design flaw, but it certainly quacks and waddles like one. And it's been around for several model years. I now record nearly all programs on a PC with a £25 LG DVD multiformat (RAM -R, RW, etc) drive that has written some 1500 DVD -R disks flawlessly - and without noise. This is despite the fact that the PC has two fans and is full of dust. I think the main difference is that on the PC the drive doesn't seem to need to stop and start - it just writes continuously.
No, I DO consider the Panasonic approach to be a design flaw.
It will be interesting to know whether Panasonic Blu-Ray disks and drives are any better, or whether they're pushing the technology too far.
Alan

Fortunately the problem is easily fixable at home and so I don't really mind what Panasonic think. Worse case I know I'll have to repeat the cleaning of the rubber in 6 or 9 months time. Frankly I'd happily do it every other month.

But I have to say I don't buy Panasonic excuses. I've never heard of DVD discs made for DVD Recorders as opposed to DVD RW drives in PCs. And as for compatability I am using Panasonic DVD-RAM double sided cartridge discs and so would like to hear Panasonic's explanation of why I should not expect my machine to read them now (when it was reading them happily on Day 1).

But I suppose I'm being picky - my experiences with Panasonic machines (I have two) are nothing compared to the nightmare that preceded it - JVC. Here I owned three different models over a 2 year period and allowing for swap outs must have experienced at least 10 different actual units - and none of them worked reliably (but were great for the odd periods when they worked).

When I complained to Panasonic I received the following reply:
"Thank you for your e-mail enquiry.

Firstly, please accept my sincere apologies for the uncharacteristic delay in our response. Due to an unexpected increase in the number of contacts we have recently received, we have been unable to provide as speedy a response as we would normally.

In response, I would stress that there is not an inherent defect with this model and there is therefore no reason why the problem that you are experiencing cannot be remedied by a qualified engineer.

I would recommend that you provide the authorised service agent covering your area the opportunity to carry out an investigation. Those in your local area can be found through our website:"

are the memorex + or - that you have tried?

-RW On first use they were ok, but problems occur when trying to delete material or Format the Discs. I just won't trust them any more, when I do record anything on the EZ25's now I stick to either DVD RAM or TDK -RW.

Since having Virgin V+ installed the DVD's don't get much use!

Martin