[rjmachin]

Hi,

I have not invested in a Next Gen (High Definition) player yet as I wanted to wait a while to see which format would win (im glad I did now )

My question is, if BluRay wins, which it seems likely, will the BluRay player prices go up due to not having any competition from HD DVD?

Or, is it the competition between the BluRay manufacturers that is making the prices plumet?

Thanks

[GDK]

I think that has to be a distinct possibility. The format war has driven down prices quickly, to the point where both sides are subsidising kit. That can't be sustainable unless they can cut the cost of manufacturing.

OTOH, the market has become accustomed to these prices, so it would be a tricky thing to push them up again. OTOTH again, profile 2.0 players, when they come, could well be the "justification" their marketing boys will give for charging more.

This could yet be pyrrhic victory for Blu Ray.

[Chorlton Fisher]

I don't think prices will rise. I think only Sony and Samsung are currently making them. A lot of manufacturers were probably holding out (like consumers) until a winner emerged. Now as it seems Blu has won we should start seeing players from all the major and minor manufacturers.

[Jarrak]

I think they will stabalise with only bargains appearing as 1.1 and 2.0 players enter the market and production ceases on older models. The next boost for Blu-ray may be the entry of the Funai player which has to be cheaper than any known badged model.

As someone who has bought into HD-DVD if they want me to buy a Blu-Ray player too the prices will have to go the other way let alone rise.

[BallroomBear]

With Sony being the driving force behind Blu, I can't see prices for Blu players dropping anytime soon regardless of when HD-DVD ceases to be. TBH, I see prices rising once HD-DVD has gone. Once Sony has killed off the competition, they'll raise prices and keep HD technology out of the reach of many consumers.

Sony has always had rip off prices for it's products, and if it's patented the technology, I'd be surprised if it'll let some backstreet Korean or Chinese manufacturer make Blu players for £50.

Besides, the major electronics manufacturers can't have any interest in killing off standard def DVD with cut price Blu machines.

I see standard def DVD still being the format of choice five or more years from now. Many consumers, especially the ones Blu-ray should be appealing to, are a lot more knowledgable now than a few years ago. They'll know all about the restrictions placed within Blu with regards to regional coding.

No one who's had a region free SD DVD player for 9 years as I have, and who's built up a substantial R1 DVD collection, is going to buy a currently unhackable and regionally coded Blu player which renders that collection unplayable, even if there are ways around that annoying little problem.

[JimRockford]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallroomBear

Many consumers, especially the ones Blu-ray should be appealing to, are a lot more knowledgable now than a few years ago. They'll know all about the restrictions placed within Blu with regards to regional coding.

The amount of people that care about region coding is extremely small. It's a niche market of buyers that import films from abroad.

75% of blu-ray movies are region free anyway. You can easily check online before you buy.

[dennisspooner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimRockford

The amount of people that care about region coding is extremely small. It's a niche market of buyers that import films from abroad.

75% of blu-ray movies are region free anyway. You can easily check online before you buy.

I think the majority of people who will go for BD will be interested enough to know about region coding .

BD is not going to replace dvd for years , if ever so the mass market sales are a very long way off.

Those into BD this early on and probably for quite some time ARE bothered about coding.

Although HD DVD is on its way out BD is still up against dvd and I think BD will find that battling HD DVD was a walk in the park compared to the challenge of convincing buyers to go BD.

If prices go up the mass market wont be interested and BD will forever remain a niche product

[Jumbo_Holden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennisspooner

I think the majority of people who will go for BD will be interested enough to know about region coding .

I am on the verge of buying into blu-ray and region coding is an issue for me. I have gone though my whole collection and worked out I only have 1 R1 movie (that isn't available in R2) 6 others I can re-buy as R2 for next to nothing on eBay.

I have a number of R1 TV show DVD's that you can't get as R2 (and properly never will) so for all those I have the Samsung DVD player that I've region zeroed (with HDMI upscalling) that won't upscale as well as a PS3 will but all my 'big - bread & butter' TV shows sets are all Region 2. Bewitched, The Simpsons, Futurama, Doctor Who, QI, Family Guy and they will always keep getting Region 2 releases so I can live with that.

Similarly with movies I only plan to switch to blu-ray with all new stuff (will just keep the vast majority of my movies as standard DVD) so I can live with only being to play Region B Blu-Ray

I'm trying to say that yes permanently locked region settings will be a pain but at the end of the day. I can still play standard DVD Region 1 on my other player so I can learn to live with it.


Edit: 1 current problem is the new Futurama movies, they come out R1 like 6 months before R2, and I'll just HAVE to see them so what I'll do is buy a R1 copy as released, then buy it again when released as R2 (then resell the R1 on ebay).

[B-29]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallroomBear

With Sony being the driving force behind Blu, I can't see prices for Blu players dropping anytime soon regardless of when HD-DVD ceases to be. TBH, I see prices rising once HD-DVD has gone. Once Sony has killed off the competition, they'll raise prices and keep HD technology out of the reach of many consumers.

Sony has always had rip off prices for it's products, and if it's patented the technology, I'd be surprised if it'll let some backstreet Korean or Chinese manufacturer make Blu players for £50.

Besides, the major electronics manufacturers can't have any interest in killing off standard def DVD with cut price Blu machines.

I see standard def DVD still being the format of choice five or more years from now. Many consumers, especially the ones Blu-ray should be appealing to, are a lot more knowledgable now than a few years ago. They'll know all about the restrictions placed within Blu with regards to regional coding.

No one who's had a region free SD DVD player for 9 years as I have, and who's built up a substantial R1 DVD collection, is going to buy a currently unhackable and regionally coded Blu player which renders that collection unplayable, even if there are ways around that annoying little problem.

Sony are one of many members of the BR association,they are'nt the only supplier, Panasonic LG ,Pioneer and many others will and are making players so there's no way prices will rise , they'll plummet.

[JimRockford]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennisspooner

I think the majority of people who will go for BD will be interested enough to know about region coding .

Don't be silly. You can buy Blu-rays in Tesco and I assure people who buy discs from there couldn't give a crap about RC.

[GaryB]

Blu-ray players will go the way of all electronic consumer goods. Just as with CD players and DVD players, prices will drop as production levels increase.

[Orbitalzone]

Since when in history has any consumer electronic product gone up in price?

There'll probably be £99 Blu ray players next christmas.

[Jarrak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbitalzone

Since when in history has any consumer electronic product gone up in price?

There'll probably be £99 Blu ray players next christmas.

When prices have been subsidised and that subsidy is then taken away as the reason for the subsidy no longer applies or VAT or other taxation increases

In the real world there are too many manufacturers hovering around the $300 mark for any single one to slap $50 on their price without losing market share. A shortage of last pickups could cause short term price hikes but with HD DVD on it's way out the demand in supply and manufacturing would help Blu-ray not hinder it.
I'm not confident of a £99 Blu-ray player unless it's old stock being dumped, for that price we are talking around $150 players in the US (which would be 1.1 minimum).

I am sure the BDA manufacturers curse the low prices but the competition has crippled their cash cow, well not for Denon and Pioneer who still uber expensive players who can do pretty much what they want

[Rich2k]

Except now we won't have companies competing in formats, we'll have companies competing to sell their Blu ray players. So we'll have a new set of competition which should drive prices down. Especially as the likes of bush, etc will probably enter the market.

[dennisspooner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumbo_Holden

I am on the verge of buying into blu-ray and region coding is an issue for me. I have gone though my whole collection and worked out I only have 1 R1 movie (that isn't available in R2) 6 others I can re-buy as R2 for next to nothing on eBay.

I have a number of R1 TV show DVD's that you can't get as R2 (and properly never will) so for all those I have the Samsung DVD player that I've region zeroed (with HDMI upscalling) that won't upscale as well as a PS3 will but all my 'big - bread & butter' TV shows sets are all Region 2. Bewitched, The Simpsons, Futurama, Doctor Who, QI, Family Guy and they will always keep getting Region 2 releases so I can live with that.

Similarly with movies I only plan to switch to blu-ray with all new stuff (will just keep the vast majority of my movies as standard DVD) so I can live with only being to play Region B Blu-Ray

I'm trying to say that yes permanently locked region settings will be a pain but at the end of the day. I can still play standard DVD Region 1 on my other player so I can learn to live with it.


Edit: 1 current problem is the new Futurama movies, they come out R1 like 6 months before R2, and I'll just HAVE to see them so what I'll do is buy a R1 copy as released, then buy it again when released as R2 (then resell the R1 on ebay).

I only have 8 titles on Bluray at the moment.

3 were UK titles bought during the Buy 2 Get 1 Free campaign.

The other 5 are all non UK releases.

Superman 2 not available on BD in the UK.
20 Million Miles To Earth not on BD in the UK.
Dawn of the Dead (1978) not on BD in the UK.
Superman Returns US disc for £10
Casino Royale from Australia as the UK and US ones are both censored.

Not only are US titles cheaper there will be more to choose from and they will be uncut.

Long term region coding on BD could be a problem - I do hope we get a hack as the UK market is largely overpriced and unimpressive

[dennisspooner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimRockford

Don't be silly. You can buy Blu-rays in Tesco and I assure people who buy discs from there couldn't give a crap about RC.

The largest 2 floor Tesco in Milton Keynes had 1 Bluray title on its shelves last week.

Hairspray at £23.

No thanks.

I didnt say everyone will be bothered about region coding but at the moment the only ones who arent are the ones stupid enough to buy discs from tescos

Back when dvd started the internet was still very much a minority interest yet multiregion dvd players pretty much became the norm.

Now that many people buy online the far better prices of US product may find Joe Public getting annoyed when his US disc wont play.

I just hope that multiregion hardware is not going to be delayed until the likes of the supermarket junk companies get in on the act

[dennisspooner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich2k

Except now we won't have companies competing in formats, we'll have companies competing to sell their Blu ray players. So we'll have a new set of competition which should drive prices down. Especially as the likes of bush, etc will probably enter the market.

Although the end result may be sub £100 Bluray players I think the hardest thing the BD companies must do is to convince the public to buy discs at all over dvd.

[Jumbo_Holden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennisspooner

Long term region coding on BD could be a problem - I do hope we get a hack as the UK market is largely overpriced and unimpressive

One idea just poped into my head. Not regarding playing region A blu-ray thats a total lock down, but just thought of perhaps one way of playing standard R1 DVD'S on a PS3 or Blu-Ray player (sort of)... ''holds hands up in defence" but you could just *cough copy the R1 disc (removing the region settings) and burn it onto a dual layered DVD+R disc. Then play that in the PS3/blu-ray player

Then again I'd don't think I'd want to ever risk it. Given its connected to the web it might log it and send it over to the people at the RIAA or something

[dennisspooner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumbo_Holden

One idea just poped into my head. Not regarding playing region A blu-ray thats a total lock down, but just thought of perhaps one way of playing standard R1 DVD'S on a PS3 or Blu-Ray player (sort of)... ''holds hands up in defence" but you could just *cough copy the R1 disc (removing the region settings) and burn it onto a dual layered DVD+R disc. Then play that in the PS3/blu-ray player

Then again I'd don't think I'd want to ever risk it. Given its connected to the web it might log it and send it over to the people at the RIAA or something

Worth considering if you could get DL rewritables but you cant which means you would have to waste a dual layer blank.

At the moment I'm making do with playing region 1 discs on my Pioneer dvdr and although not upscaled the NTSC pictures actually look better than non upscaled PAL - from my viewing distance anyway.

I was well pleased with my US Man From Uncle 41 disc set when I found out it was coded for R1-4 so it plays on the PS3

[Jumbo_Holden]

Quote:

Worth considering if you could get DL rewritables but you cant which means you would have to waste a dual layer blank.

Well, it’s just an idea. You can get +R DL disks for 80p each now in a shop near me. Then again at the end of the day the R1 discs I'd be wanting to do this with. Namely Fairly Odd Parents, South Park and (The original) Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series (I'm a nerd who watches what he likes) anyway those played on a PS3 or on my standard Samsung player (that plays R1) well with them shows the PS3 probably wouldn't give any greater upscale anyway. Wouldn't be worth doing all the DL+ region removed copies.

[Dan Sette]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallroomBear

Sony has always had rip off prices for it's products, and if it's patented the technology, I'd be surprised if it'll let some backstreet Korean or Chinese manufacturer make Blu players for £50..

Because as inventors of the CD player, they've kept those prices artificially high for decades

[dennisspooner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Sette

Because as inventors of the CD player, they've kept those prices artificially high for decades

Philips had pretty much completed development of the cd before Sony joined them in perfecting the error correction system

[dronkula]

Don't forget that the most popular 'Bluray Player' is actually the PS3 - which has it's own competition issues.

So, the PS3 will probably keep dropping in price, and it'll be hard to sell a standalone player for more than a PS3.

[chriswatts]

Sony have always produced good products but the problem has always been they were very expensive. The PS3 still has competition from the Xbox and the Wii so the cost of that will be tied in with these products but now with no alternative to Blu-ray on the stand alone market you can expect the price on 2.0 players to rocket.