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What do we do if we've bought an HD DVD player?


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Old 16-02-2008, 18:10
Netgem
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Do we have any rights as we were led to believe that a continuous stream of titles was available?
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Old 16-02-2008, 18:28
Rich2k
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I sincerely doubt it, in the same way as old betamax went.

However you still have one heck of a DVD upscaling device.
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Old 16-02-2008, 18:30
Jarrak
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No rights what so ever, at no time has Toshiba or any of the studios gone on record stating support to the end of time or any practical time frame, buying into technology quickly is the risk early adopters take. Not to forget that bottom line the players still do exactly what they were sold to do and even if everyone goes Blu-ray exclusive they will still continue to play any of the hundreds of titles released.

If you bought a player recently you may be covered by the retailers returns policy but that is about it.
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Old 16-02-2008, 21:30
dennisspooner
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I sincerely doubt it, in the same way as old betamax went.

However you still have one heck of a DVD upscaling device.
Betamax machines were still always able to do what the devices were intended for and that was to record tv , so the comparison with Beta is not quite accurate.

Once HD DVD titles stop coming out in the next few months the best you can do is play your existing library and upscale R2 dvd's
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Old 16-02-2008, 21:42
dmb26
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Sorry mate but it was always going to be a 50/50 gamble for early adopters.
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Old 16-02-2008, 22:17
JimRockford
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Do we have any rights as we were led to believe that a continuous stream of titles was available?
Who led you to believe that? There's been a format war and it's not been looking good for HD DVD for quite a while since Warner dropped the big one.
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Old 17-02-2008, 10:37
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Betamax machines were still always able to do what the devices were intended for and that was to record tv , so the comparison with Beta is not quite accurate.

Once HD DVD titles stop coming out in the next few months the best you can do is play your existing library and upscale R2 dvd's
The hardware manufacturers are not responsible for ensuring that sofware manufacturers support their hardware.

A HD-DVD player is designed to play HD-DVD's (and SD-DVD's). It does that perfectly well - the fact that nobody will be releasing movies on HD-DVD in a few months is irrelevent - the machine still does what it was designed to do. If Toshiba sent a coded message to all HD-DVD players to suddenly stop playing HD-DVD movies then you may have an argument - but as it stands, there is no recourse. Adopting a new technology early is a gamble (just look at minidiscs, laserdisc, SACD etc)

This is no different to games consoles. How many games consoles are on the market that no longer have games made for them. Amiga CD32, Sega Master System, Sega Saturn, Sega Megadrive, Atari 2600, Philips CDi, Dreamcast, Atari Jaguar - this list goes on and on. Are owners of all these systems entitled to a refund because they have either lost their respective format war - or are now obsolete. You can still play their back catalogue of games - so they all still do what they were designed to.

Unless you can prove that you were mislead into buying into the HD-DVD format - like showing that Toshiba promised to support HD-DVD for X years - then the assumption is that you took a risk knowing the facts - especially if you bought in the last few months. A simple websearch would have given you the information that blu-ray have been outselling HD-DVD for months. Even when paramount backed HD-DVD - the question was asked of them - "why are you backing the minority format".
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Old 17-02-2008, 10:53
chriswatts
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MiniDisk player owners never got their money back when that flopped and neither did any other product release that failed. You pay your money you take your chance.
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Old 17-02-2008, 14:29
infiniteloop
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rubbish comparison, MiniDisc was around for years and years and successful as a cassette replacement until Mp3 players arrived. DCC would be the better comparison at this stage, or CD-i.
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Old 17-02-2008, 14:43
Moony
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rubbish comparison, MiniDisc was around for years and years and successful as a cassette replacement until Mp3 players arrived. DCC would be the better comparison at this stage, or CD-i.
Whatever the comparrison - the point is that manufacturers cannot be held responsible for your purchacing choices.

People who bought HD-DVD players knew there was a format war on - and that there was a chance HD-DVD would loose it - and yet they still bought into the technology.

If you dont want to take a gamble like that - wait until the format war is over.
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Old 17-02-2008, 14:48
jibberjabber2b
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rubbish comparison, MiniDisc was around for years and years and successful as a cassette replacement until Mp3 players arrived. DCC would be the better comparison at this stage, or CD-i.
Granted, you have scored some pedant points, WELL DONE.

However I don't know where you were shopping as I rarely saw any singles or albums released on minidisc. However, I think it was popular as a recording medium and from what I know has been especially popular in the industry that you work in.

To me and many other casual shoppers out there, I think it's fairly safe to say that minidisc players/recorders were not particularly worth investing in, which is why I never did, and I am happy that I didn't.
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Old 17-02-2008, 15:01
jibberjabber2b
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Whatever the comparrison - the point is that manufacturers cannot be held responsible for your purchacing choices.

People who bought HD-DVD players knew there was a format war on - and that there was a chance HD-DVD would loose it - and yet they still bought into the technology.

If you dont want to take a gamble like that - wait until the format war is over.
Yes, exactly. Although I have a grain of sympathy for those who invested in HD-DVD players and discs, it was very widely publicised, and probably very likely knew that they were possibly walking into a quagmire!

Well hey, if they had the spare cash to invest in such a format then maybe they've lost that grain of sympathy.
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Old 17-02-2008, 15:16
infiniteloop
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Granted, you have scored some pedant points, WELL DONE.

However I don't know where you were shopping as I rarely saw any singles or albums released on minidisc. However, I think it was popular as a recording medium and from what I know has been especially popular in the industry that you work in.

To me and many other casual shoppers out there, I think it's fairly safe to say that minidisc players/recorders were not particularly worth investing in, which is why I never did, and I am happy that I didn't.
Pre-recorded software on MD wasn't widespread at all, but there's very good reason why not...we already had the very convenient and pretty portable CD. While cassette albums & singles did sell, and sell well, that was because LPs were so inconvenient and because the walkman was so incredibly popular. There was simply no need for pre-recorded MD software. It, like DAT before it, found a niche in broadcasting which it still serves to this day, as a cart machine and cheap, good quality acquisition device. But that is by the by. Early adopters know that they are early adopters, so there shouldn't be any whining. Buying into something because if an anti-Sony prejudice is even sillier. I bought a home recorder in full size, and had a few MD walkmans, amazingly someone bought my MD recorder for about £80 on eBay which I was delighted with! It filled a very useful portable niche for me until the iPod arrived.
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Old 17-02-2008, 20:19
eddiewood
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Do we have any rights as we were led to believe that a continuous stream of titles was available?
Wait a while, then take advantage of cheap HD-DVDs being dumped into bargain bins. The player will probably last you several years!
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Old 17-02-2008, 21:15
bobcar
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Wait a while, then take advantage of cheap HD-DVDs being dumped into bargain bins. The player will probably last you several years!
The trouble is when it does break you'll have to find another one second hand or dump all the disks.
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Old 17-02-2008, 21:28
eddiewood
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The trouble is when it does break you'll have to find another one second hand or dump all the disks.
Or get a combi player, or get one off Ebay, there will be plenty going cheap for years.

Either way, after getting cheap as chips HD-DVD movies, many of which will not be available on BD for a LONG time, would it really matter if you had 10 favourite ones needed replacing after having them for several years?

I'll be watching HD-DVDs that you can't get on BD at all. All bought for a few quid.
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Old 17-02-2008, 22:12
Jarrak
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The trouble is when it does break you'll have to find another one second hand or dump all the disks.



Not that big a problem, long after Laserdisc vanished players were still being sold and HD DVD take up has been far more widespread than that format.

I'm going to take a good look at the dual players (US and UK) and if nothing looks really good then I would even spend well under £100 to get a brand new HD DVD player and stick in the spare room unopened just as many people said they would do when the VHS stated to vanish from the high street.

I might even consider a Blu-ray/HD DVD drive for the PC, they are out now and that sector could probably sustain a niche market for longer than mainstream consumer electronics.

I expect to be watching my HD DVD's when Blu-ray is replaced
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Old 17-02-2008, 22:19
dennisspooner
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Not that big a problem, long after Laserdisc vanished players were still being sold and HD DVD take up has been far more widespread than that format.

I'm going to take a good look at the dual players (US and UK) and if nothing looks really good then I would even spend well under £100 to get a brand new HD DVD player and stick in the spare room unopened just as many people said they would do when the VHS stated to vanish from the high street.

I might even consider a Blu-ray/HD DVD drive for the PC, they are out now and that sector could probably sustain a niche market for longer than mainstream consumer electronics.

I expect to be watching my HD DVD's when Blu-ray is replaced
Your LD analogy is way off.

While the UK market was quite small , it grew rapidly after 1990 thanks to NTSC/PAL playback players there were many LD fans in the UK who were buying from the US and even UK LD were only £17.99 from Universal /Pioneer so the market was there

And in the US the LD market thrived for 20 years.

So the analogy is wrong for both the US nd UK.

Look at the number of titles available on HD DVD - well under 1000.

There was at least 30000 titles in the US and most LD fans in the UK bought from that country
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Old 17-02-2008, 22:27
Jarrak
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Your LD analogy is way off.

While the UK market was quite small since 1990 thanks to NTSC playback there were many LD fans in the UK who were buying from the US.

And in the US the LD market thrived for 20 years.

So the analogy is wrong fro both the US nd UK.
Look at the number of titles available on HD DVD - well under 1000.
There was at least 30000 titles in the US and most LD fans in the UK bought from that country






Yes I was one of the people owned a UK sourced Pioneer LD player and imported many a US NTSC laserdisc and while it was around as a niche product for far longer than HD DVD or even Blu-ray are likely to be it certainly did not sell more players in the UK than HD DVD has. Or did it? I would be interested if anyone has any accurate LD player sales figures let alone HD DVD players sales for the UK.

I may be wrong but in HD medias short lifespan it's made far more of an impact on the mainstream market than LD ever did especially in the UK, less so in the US and Japan where LD was the god send to the early home cinema fan.

So I don't really think I am wrong in that for LD owners who kept their players there were many opportunities to get new hardware and the same will apply for HD DVD owners, ebay and online dealers will have players for years long after any mainstream studio support dries up.
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Old 17-02-2008, 22:49
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Yes I was one of the people owned a UK sourced Pioneer LD player and imported many a US NTSC laserdisc and while it was around as a niche product for far longer than HD DVD or even Blu-ray are likely to be it certainly did not sell more players in the UK than HD DVD has. Or did it? I would be interested if anyone has any accurate LD player sales figures let alone HD DVD players sales for the UK.

I may be wrong but in HD medias short lifespan it's made far more of an impact on the mainstream market than LD ever did especially in the UK, less so in the US and Japan where LD was the god send to the early home cinema fan.

So I don't really think I am wrong in that for LD owners who kept their players there were many opportunities to get new hardware and the same will apply for HD DVD owners, ebay and online dealers will have players for years long after any mainstream studio support dries up.
Despite the low interest I would say that it sold more players in its lifetime than HD DVD has --but its only speculation.

Today there are still a handful of titles released on LD that have never made it to dvd - dont think the same can be said for HD DVD apart from CGI Trek (only in combo set)
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Old 17-02-2008, 22:56
Jarrak
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Despite the low interest I would say that it sold more players in its lifetime than HD DVD has --but its only speculation.

Today there are still a handful of titles released on LD that have never made it to dvd - dont think the same can be said for HD DVD apart from CGI Trek (only in combo set)




Maybe, hard to tell in UK terms, certainly in Japan LD has probably outsold HD DVD ten to one if not more and in the US probably closer but in the UK then I would lean towards HD DVD.

Not important, my point was that like LD the players for HD DVD would be around new or used for years.
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Old 17-02-2008, 23:00
dennisspooner
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Maybe, hard to tell in UK terms, certainly in Japan LD has probably outsold HD DVD ten to one if not more and in the US probably closer but in the UK then I would lean towards HD DVD.

Not important, my point was that like LD the players for HD DVD would be around new or used for years.
3 or 4 times in the last 5 years I've got fed up with waiting for a dvd release of certain films and ended up buying the LD and a player from ebay to transfer it to dvd then selling it on again afterwards.

The packaging was great especially on the multi disc sets like the Goldfinger and Thunderball sets
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Old 17-02-2008, 23:04
Jarrak
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3 or 4 times in the last 5 years I've got fed up with waiting for a dvd release of certain films and ended up buying the LD and a player from ebay to transfer it to dvd then selling it on again afterwards.

The packaging was great especially on the multi disc sets like the Goldfinger and Thunderball sets




I can understand that.
One of the worse decisions I made was to sell my LD setup, I could easily have replaced my R1 DVD player and kept the LD up and running but I was looking at the strengthening DVD market and my lower use of LD and one guy got an absolute bargain.

I still remember the Aliens boxset, Raiders and Star Wars
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Old 17-02-2008, 23:41
dennisspooner
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I can understand that.
One of the worse decisions I made was to sell my LD setup, I could easily have replaced my R1 DVD player and kept the LD up and running but I was looking at the strengthening DVD market and my lower use of LD and one guy got an absolute bargain.

I still remember the Aliens boxset, Raiders and Star Wars
Bit hard on the wallet though wasnt it?
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Old 18-02-2008, 00:12
Jarrak
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Bit hard on the wallet though wasnt it?




Yeah, but worth it

At the time I simply gave up on VHS for movies, the picture quality and audio was so lacking despite getting a decent VCR and amp. Upgraded my LD to AC3 wasn't exactly cheap at the time either and my redundancy cheque paid for my first DD capable amp/decoder combo

Funny really, there is no way I would pay the LD prices for HD media, perhaps the upgrade from DVD audio/video is simply not as cost effective even more so when after a couple of months a DVD is well under a tenner.
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