[anniebrion]

Now, three Internet providers in Britain have teamed up to try to obtain a piece of online advertising for themselves. The three companies — BT, Carphone Warehouse and Virgin Media — announced a deal last week with a company called Phorm, whose technology tracks Web users and sends them ads related to their interests.

Phorm said it would set up a new online advertising platform called the Open Internet Exchange, which any Web site would be allowed to join. Proceeds from ads shown on these publishers’ sites will be shared with BT, Carphone Warehouse and Virgin Media, which together represent more than two-thirds of Britain’s Internet access market.

The three Internet providers have agreed to give Phorm access to customers’ browsing records, letting it track a Web user’s every move. That way, the Internet exchange can send an ad directly to a select audience anywhere on the Web, rather than hoping that the user lands on a site displaying the ad.

<http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/18/technology/18target.html?_r=1&oref=slogin>

[mossy2103]

Although VM seem to want to give their customers the option of an OPT-OUT (it really should ne an OPT-IN in my view), it seems like the whole concept is powered by Webwise, and there are some interesting things in its FAQs, including how to turn it off (it's cookie-based, even if you turn it off you get an "off" cookie, so if you delete cookies at any time, or change PCs, you will need to revisit the Webwise site in order to turn it off again).

http://www.webwise.com/how-it-works/faq.html#3

VM - you have got a goddamn cheek, I am NOT impressed.

[boxx]

Originally Posted by mossy2103

VM - you have got a goddamn cheek, I am NOT impressed.

Couldn't agree more.

Are they saying they'll have our internet histories on a database?
Luckily none of the sites that i frequent would ever sign up for such a crazy scheme?

[BenMcr77]

I don't see how this is any worse than google, live.com, yahoo etc do already

Slightly less paranoid version of this here, here, here and here

Phorm’s platform connects the Internet Service Providers with advertisers and Web sites, allowing online ads to be targeted according to a user’s anonymous browsing trends.

Phorm’s platform remembers the subjects a user has searched for and links this information to a user profile. The actual users and their Internet numbers remain anonymous.

The system tracks recent sites visited by the user and any keywords they have entered to search engines to identify their interests, but replaces their identifying details with a random number that cannot be traced back.

“We cannot know who you are or where you’ve been,” said Kent Ertugrul, chief executive.

Phorm (LSE: PHRX.L - news) 's technology will provide the ISPs with a new online advertising platform, the Open Internet Exchange, which will enable targeted advertising based on the search and browsing habits of the service providers customers, although the system anonymises the ISP data thereby safeguarding online privacy by protecting the identity of the consumers.

And from Virgin's own privacy policy

Disclosing your information
Here's when we may provide information about you:

To employees and agents of Virgin Media to deal with any accounts, products and services provided to you by Virgin Media now or in the future.
With your agreement, to Virgin Media group companies and other Virgin companies (e.g. Virgin Atlantic), whose products and services may be of interest to you.
To search the files of a credit reference agency, which will keep a record of that search, when you apply for service. Additionally, details of how you conduct your account may also be disclosed to the agency. This information may be used by other organisations in assessing applications from you and members of your household.
We may use aggregate information and statistics for the purposes of monitoring web site usage in order to help us develop the web site and our service and may provide such aggregate information to third parties for example content partners and advertisers. These statistics will not include information that can be used to identify any individual for example, '10,000 people clicked on an advertisement yesterday'. We will not pass on your personal information to third parties except in accordance with this policy and our Terms and Conditions or where we are required by law to disclose that information.

Originally Posted by BenMcr77

I don't see how this is any worse than google, live.com, yahoo etc do already

Slightly less paranoid version of this here, here, here and here









And from Virgin's own privacy policy

Glad someones posting some common sense instead of the usual "Big Brother is watching me!"

It's targeted anonymous user adverts...and you can opt out, so all the paranoids are safe

[leBonk]

ContextPlus, known for the Apropos rootkit which plagued thousands of internet users, has shut down operations according to a notice on their homepage.

....

The folks behind ContextPlus, Apropos and PeopleOnPage evidently did not want to be known and there’s little information about them to be found on the internet. The ContextPlus.com domain registration info shows a name and address in Poland. Interestingly enough, the domain history on 2-28-2005 shows the name Apropos with an address and phone number in Kirkland, Washington. PeopleOnPage.com shows an address in Poland with the name Kent Ertugrul . A Google search for Kent Ertugrul brings up a hit showing him as director and CEO of 121 Media, which is a contextual advertising company according to the website. I don’t know if there’s any connection between ContextPlus/PeopleOnPage and 121 Media, but it might be worth further investigation.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Spyware/?p=820

121media is now know as Phorm, and Ertugrul is the CEO. Maybe some tech journos should pick up their spades and start digging.

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by BenMcr77

I don't see how this is any worse than google, live.com, yahoo etc do already

Except I can choose not to visit those sites mentioned.


The issue for me is that I don't want to be force-fed advertising based on what a third party thinks I want to see or am interested in.

[DieDieMyDarling]

Originally Posted by mossy2103

Except I can choose not to visit those sites mentioned.


The issue for me is that I don't want to be force-fed advertising based on what a third party thinks I want to see or am interested in.

Would the likes of Ad Block Plus, still get rid of this advertising?

I'm with you on the fact that i don't want to have to Opt Out, it should be Opt In, and if VM are going to be making money out of this, then they either need to reduce broadband prices or give incentive to customers who choose not to Opt Out, ie 10% off your broadband bill if you keep this advertising enabled.

To the people who don't see a problem with it and claim it's just a matter of opting out, why then wasn't it an opt in service in the first place, if it's not that big of a deal?
Because VM know that most people won't realise it's happening, and certainly won't get around to opting out. You can bet your ass it won't be freely advertised on their site, with full instructions of how to opt out, much like the STM details are hidden on the main site.

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by DieDieMyDarling

Would the likes of Ad Block Plus, still get rid of this advertising?

I would imagine so, I currently use it and it does a good job. Also Flashblock. But not only do some get through (even with the ads blocking options within Outpost firewall), I object to the principle.

I'm with you on the fact that i don't want to have to Opt Out, it should be Opt In, and if VM are going to be making money out of this, then they either need to reduce broadband prices or give incentive to customers who choose not to Opt Out, ie 10% off your broadband bill if you keep this advertising enabled.

Good idea, bet it won't happen though.

To the people who don't see a problem with it and claim it's just a matter of opting out, why then wasn't it an opt in service in the first place, if it's not that big of a deal?
Because VM know that most people won't realise it's happening, and certainly won't get around to opting out. You can bet your ass it won't be freely advertised on their site, with full instructions of how to opt out, much like the STM details are hidden on the main site.

Yes, i have to agree with that, and that is another reason why I object to it - the Opt-out method relies on lack of knowledge of the process, coupled with the normal inertia of people. Nor forgetting that if you clear your cookies (manually or via some of the anti-spyware apps) you lose the opt-out cookies and have to re-register. The same thing will happen if you use a new PC/laptop on your connection of course. I wonder how many people will forget?

[TheBruce1]

This is at best fositware and at worst spyware, there is no EULA as i understand it. They will place a tracking cookie on my PC without my consent, this is spyware .

I or any other user should not have to opt out of this pathetic money maker for VM, it should be by default, if anyone wishes to opt-in then they can.

I clear my cookies many times a day and each time i have to go threw the process of switching of this spyware cookie, i will bring this to the attention of privacy advocates, this is my PC not VM and i shall choose how i handle the security of my PC, not VM.

So, VM are in the Spyware game, a few letters of to the media one thinks.

I have also put OIX.net into my host file, this will block the cookie sending any information back to its spyware HQ.

[TheBruce1]

It is not just Big Brother that is watching you. Some two million computers around the world have downloaded software created by the London-based 121Media - and most users probably don't even know it.

The software is "spyware" which monitors your internet browsing habits, forms a view of your interests, and then sends you targeted advertising for the likes of British Airways, L'Oréal, O2 and British Gas. This is called "contextual advertising" by people in the trade, or an invasion of privacy by most other people.

The US has outlawed spyware that is downloaded without computer users' consent and that can get access to important passwords. But 121Media - chaired by the former chairman of Microsoft UK, David Svendsen - operates within the law because it pays to have its product bundled with other downloadable software, or "freeware", such as file-sharing programmes. The presence of spyware is set out in the terms and conditions which, happily, few people read thoroughly.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...er-534944.html

While Phorm claims that it keeps your data private "by tracking individual users with an assigned number only," that's hardly assuring. After all, remember that both AOL and Netflix have released similar anonymized data where identifying info was replaced with an assigned number... and it didn't take long for both sets of data to be de-anonymized. While it's no surprise that ISPs would want to get into the advertising business, and to think that they could better target ads thanks to their knowledge of your entire surfing history, it's going to freak some people out (and potentially cause some serious privacy problems). All the more reason to figure out how encrypt your traffic and hide your activities from your ISP.
http://techdirt.com/articles/2008021...=400&width=780

Phorm, Inc. (which will become the ultimate holding company of 121Media, Inc pursuant to the proposed
reorganisation as described in the 121Media Inc Proxy Statement dated March 30, 2007. As part of the same
reorganisation, 121Media Inc will be renamed Phorm UK, Inc)


COMPANY REGISTERED OFFICE ADDRESS AND IF DIFFERENT, COMPANY TRADING ADDRESS (INCLUDING POSTCODES) :
LONDON

Golden Cross House
8 Duncannon Street
London WC2N 4JF


NEW YORK
264 W. 40th Street, 16th Floor
New York, NY 10018
http://br.advfn.com/news_Schedule-1-..._20056587.html

[Clarat]

Sounds good to me, if the internet was not ad funded we'd all be paying more for it, given that fact I'd rather get ads that are likely to be relevent to me rather than guff I'm not interested in. This is one of the benefits of the internet - it can be molded to the users profile.

[anniebrion]

Originally Posted by Clarat

Sounds good to me, if the internet was not ad funded we'd all be paying more for it, given that fact I'd rather get ads that are likely to be relevent to me rather than guff I'm not interested in. This is one of the benefits of the internet - it can be molded to the users profile.

So you're happy for them to scan every web page, every forum posting and every non-https form you fill in on the 'net?

[starsailor123]

Originally Posted by anniebrion

So you're happy for them to scan every web page, every forum posting and every non-https form you fill in on the 'net?

Not happy but I'm not happy paying the amount of tax I do each year but its an enevitability ( and that's some resignation for a totally anti-ID card individual)


Wait a minute there a knock at the door

[brettiex]

I think it's a known fact that advertising pays a lot better than subscriptions.

This is one of those things that can be looked at from either extreme but ultimately it is these companies that are doing this to try and stay afloat. Companies have to grow and keep their feet is as many things as possible to keep afloat. Companies that specialise in a single product either don't last long or dies some time ago.

If companies did everything that could be seen as correct by all consumers and groups then it's a high possibility that the consumer wouldn't be able to benefit from the feirce competion that we currently enjoy.

I'm not saying that this any alot of the other things do are what I consider good for everyone but whilst they continue to do these things they may help consumers pay less.

Ultinately there is the opt-out and as long as this in honered then everyone does at least have a choice. I still think an opt-in may have been better in this situation.

This is future and whatever way you look at it all the other ISP's will be following suite if it goes down well. Anyway this is certainly better than all the spyware that is currenly downloaded to your PC's while your borwsing.

I don't know how this will be implimented but if it is cookie based as someone had said that we should be able to control that way as well.

[TheBruce1]

Originally Posted by Clarat

Sounds good to me, if the internet was not ad funded we'd all be paying more for it, given that fact I'd rather get ads that are likely to be relevent to me rather than guff I'm not interested in. This is one of the benefits of the internet - it can be molded to the users profile.

You really think prices will come down, this is about greed, if you are happy to be advertised too in this way, i have no problem with that, as long as we are giving the choice to opt out completely.

Originally Posted by starsailor123

Not happy but I'm not happy paying the amount of tax I do each year but its an enevitability ( and that's some resignation for a totally anti-ID card individual)

Nobody is happy to pay for anything, this is not the same thing, they`ll will be advertising to you. What is the difference between this and say the Vundo trojan which does the same thing, they do it without your permission as well.

Originally Posted by brettiex

I think it's a known fact that advertising pays a lot better than subscriptions.

Only if people stay and do not go to another ISP, i certainly will be.

Originally Posted by brettiex

This is one of those things that can be looked at from either extreme but ultimately it is these companies that are doing this to try and stay afloat. Companies have to grow and keep their feet is as many things as possible to keep afloat. Companies that specialise in a single product either don't last long or dies some time ago.

I agree to some point about what your saying, at the end of the day if they can only make a profit from spying on their customers it really say a lot about them.

Originally Posted by brettiex

If companies did everything that could be seen as correct by all consumers and groups then it's a high possibility that the consumer wouldn't be able to benefit from the feirce competion that we currently enjoy.

I'm not saying that this any alot of the other things do are what I consider good for everyone but whilst they continue to do these things they may help consumers pay less.

When was the last time we all got a reduction in our bills, don`t think it will happen in this case either.

Originally Posted by brettiex

Ultinately there is the opt-out and as long as this in honered then everyone does at least have a choice. I still think an opt-in may have been better in this situation.

This is future and whatever way you look at it all the other ISP's will be following suite if it goes down well. Anyway this is certainly better than all the spyware that is currenly downloaded to your PC's while your borwsing.

I don't know how this will be implimented but if it is cookie based as someone had said that we should be able to control that way as well.

As i understand it, there is no one time opt out, everytime you use your browser you have to turn off the spyware cookie, i do not know what files will be dropped onto my system, much like Apropos rootkit, again without my consent.

[robborover]

Originally Posted by Digital Fanantic

Glad someones posting some common sense instead of the usual "Big Brother is watching me!"

It's targeted anonymous user adverts...and you can opt out, so all the paranoids are safe

That makes 3 of us not being hysterical

[zenith52]

When was the last time you paid for a speed upgrade? Is that not the same a price reduction? Someone still has to pay for the additional capacity required to support it

[paulschapman]

Originally Posted by mossy2103

Except I can choose not to visit those sites mentioned.


The issue for me is that I don't want to be force-fed advertising based on what a third party thinks I want to see or am interested in.

Which is actually the only problem I'd have with this.

[Sigmatic]

Originally Posted by zenith52

When was the last time you paid for a speed upgrade? Is that not the same a price reduction? Someone still has to pay for the additional capacity required to support it

Not paying for a speed upgrade is not the same as a price reduction. Speed and prices have to be competitive to keep customers from going elsewhere. Virgin wouldn't have many customers left if they were still doing 600K for £25 a month.

[goomba]

Well I for one am looking forward for Virgin letting me know they are doing this and offering me the opportunity to opt out. Which should be within a month if the rollout mentioned in the article is correct.

Anybody willing to take bets on them informing us?

[Delvious]

Does that mean I'm likely to get bombarded with adverts for 'Adult' content

[mossy2103]

Originally Posted by goomba

Well I for one am looking forward for Virgin letting me know they are doing this and offering me the opportunity to opt out. Which should be within a month if the rollout mentioned in the article is correct.

Well, according to the posts from senior VM staff of the VM newsgroups, they are still in the planning stages, so a rollout is a long way off.

[DieDieMyDarling]

Originally Posted by mossy2103

Well, according to the posts from senior VM staff of the VM newsgroups, they are still in the planning stages, so a rollout is a long way off.

They said something similar about STM, when first questioned about why people were getting reduced speeds at certain times in certain areas, then they confessed they were trialing STM in a few areas, then not long after it went live in all areas.

[dgm67]

so if kids use the pc in the day and adults at night does that mean you get adverts for Disney and Viagra all the time