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Old 29-02-2008, 18:36
gaznik
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I am looking at one of these for my problem, i am trying to get proper 5.1 through my sound system while watching my sky+. My dvd system dosnt have a digital input, if i were to set it up via an amp how would this work...

ie sky+ optical to amp
dvd home system to amp

This may seem a bit of a thick question, but my speakers are wired to the dvd home theatre system so with no digital input in my dvd how would the sound then get re delivered back through the dvd player if i put it all into the amp

I may anser my own question, but would it be best to try connect the speakers to an amp, and also can anyone recommend a cheap one that should do the job.
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Old 29-02-2008, 22:42
niall campbell
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on the dvd select AV/ line 1

whatever you are watching on tv will send signal down the scart and then out through the speakers

for this to work you need a fully pinned scart

a scart socket on back of tv that has an arrow with two heads on it ( meaning in/ out ) and connect that one to dvd amp
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Old 29-02-2008, 23:18
GDK
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on the dvd select AV/ line 1

whatever you are watching on tv will send signal down the scart and then out through the speakers

for this to work you need a fully pinned scart

a scart socket on back of tv that has an arrow with two heads on it ( meaning in/ out ) and connect that one to dvd amp
Scart is no good in this case since the OP stated he wants true 5.1 surround sound. Going via Scart would only give him a stereo signal which, at best, could be encoded as Dolby Prologic surround sound.

You need an amp with digital inputs which could accept digital audio from both your existing home theatre setup (assuming it has some form of digital output) and the Sky+ box. You would connect your existing speakers to the new amp and get digital 5.1 surround sound from both sources then. The amplifier built-in to your existing home theatre would then be redundant.

Something like the Denon AVR1508 would do what you need, but check the power rating and impedance of your existing speakers. The Denon is rated at 75W per channel and could blow your existing speakers if their power rating is lower! It can be had for about £220. I'm sure there are cheaper alternatives available.
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Old 01-03-2008, 03:38
Chris Frost
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I am looking at one of these for my problem, i am trying to get proper 5.1 through my sound system while watching my sky+.
OK, so you've got an all-in-one surround system and come up against the problem that plenty of other people have had - not enough of the right inputs.

The simplest solution is to sell the all-in-one and buy a proper surround system - DVD - amp - spkrs - sub. That might sound like a really big step but don't panic. There are some great s/h bargains to be had if you know where to look

I've just flicked through some amp and receiver ads. There was a Kenwood AV receiver sold recently for £25! Bargain. Sony STR-DB930 - £60. Yamaha RXV_795 - £50, Yamaha RX-V350 - £50, Pioneer VSX-D812 - £70, so there's plenty of stuff to be had. For speakers go to Ebay and look for Mission. DVD players; well they're almost free with cornflakes now aren't they? Once you've got all your gear then it's tiime to shift the all-in-one. Sell it locally - free ads paper - supermarket noticeboards etc.

Once you are up and running you'll never look back.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:05
niall campbell
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ideally spending £350 to £400 on an amp would be best

however loads of people on here struggle as they have one of these all in one dvd amps

my solution would give you pro logic if your amp supports this and I presume other sound options if it has a stereo source e.g. telly


for a future amp you should look for HDMI inputs and outputs. HDMI version 1.3 for PS 3 / blu ray / HD capability. And finally THX as well. There is only one good priced one at the moment and thats this

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/pro...n_5710611.html


but in the meantime try the scart and select AV 1 on the dvd player and see what happens
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Old 01-03-2008, 17:55
gaznik
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Thanks for your response,

My sky+ has the red/white audio leads run from it to the dvd sound sytem (bacause of no digital inputs), the dvd sound sytem is linked to my hdtv with a hdmi cable so dont think your idea would work.

Like the look of the onkyo thing but think it would be a choice between that an the wife if u no what i mean.

Think ill wait till they come down in price !!!
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Old 01-03-2008, 18:02
tellytart1
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but check the power rating and impedance of your existing speakers. The Denon is rated at 75W per channel and could blow your existing speakers if their power rating is lower! It can be had for about £220. I'm sure there are cheaper alternatives available.
Yes, definitely check the power rating of the amp and the speakers, but generally speaking, it's safest when the amplifiers power rating is higher than the speakers. (The reason being that an underpowered amplifier feeding any speaker will start to distort on the output at even seemingly low volume levels, this distortion of the audio signal will damage speakers very very quickly, even if the speakers appear to have a higher power rating than the amplifier.)
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Old 01-03-2008, 22:33
GDK
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Yes, definitely check the power rating of the amp and the speakers, but generally speaking, it's safest when the amplifiers power rating is higher than the speakers. (The reason being that an underpowered amplifier feeding any speaker will start to distort on the output at even seemingly low volume levels, this distortion of the audio signal will damage speakers very very quickly, even if the speakers appear to have a higher power rating than the amplifier.)
Errr, No! That's dead wrong. The opposite is true. If the power rating of the amp is higher than the speakers, the amp can deliver too much power to the speakers and damage them at high volumes - like fitting a 3A fuse in a 13A kettle: when the kettle begins to draw 13A, the 3A fuse will blow. In a similar way, too much amp power will blow the speakers.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:21
simon1
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Errr, No! That's dead wrong. The opposite is true. If the power rating of the amp is higher than the speakers, the amp can deliver too much power to the speakers and damage them at high volumes - like fitting a 3A fuse in a 13A kettle: when the kettle begins to draw 13A, the 3A fuse will blow. In a similar way, too much amp power will blow the speakers.
WRONG



I'm sorry, but "telltart1" is correct.

Once an under-powered amp runs out of steam it starts "clipping" - this causes distortion and can lead to speaker damage.
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Old 02-03-2008, 12:40
niall campbell
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Thanks for your response,

My sky+ has the red/white audio leads run from it to the dvd sound sytem (bacause of no digital inputs), the dvd sound sytem is linked to my hdtv with a hdmi cable so dont think your idea would work.

Like the look of the onkyo thing but think it would be a choice between that an the wife if u no what i mean.

Think ill wait till they come down in price !!!
perhaps you could tell us what make and model you have as | am guessing blindly what you have
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Old 02-03-2008, 19:26
gaznik
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dvd samsung htthx25 if thats what u meant
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Old 02-03-2008, 19:41
infiniteloop
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tellytart is quite correct.

In addition, nothing like a £400 amp is needed to do this. A £100 Pioneer/Sony/Yamaha amp from Richer Sounds or a good second hand bargain as above will be fine. Move the speakers onto the new amp, bin the old DVD system and get a separate DVD source for cheap. Then you'll be fine.
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Old 03-03-2008, 09:00
GDK
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WRONG



I'm sorry, but "telltart1" is correct.

Once an under-powered amp runs out of steam it starts "clipping" - this causes distortion and can lead to speaker damage.
OK. I've done a little research and it seems there is an effect like that. You've got to admit it's counter-intuitive!

Apologies to tellytart.

It's still true that you'll also damage the speakers if you have an over powered amp and you'll risk damage to both speakers and amplifier if the impedances don't match.
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Old 04-03-2008, 23:24
phil mackracken
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for a future amp you should look for HDMI inputs and outputs. HDMI version 1.3 for PS 3 / blu ray / HD capability. And finally THX as well. There is only one good priced one at the moment and thats this

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/pro...n_5710611.html



Thats what i have at the moment and it is awesome, really happy with it, superb upconversion, was watching star wars through x box and picture quality was amazing and with full dolby digital 5.1 not the prologic
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Old 04-03-2008, 23:26
phil mackracken
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OK. I've done a little research and it seems there is an effect like that. You've got to admit it's counter-intuitive!

Apologies to tellytart.

It's still true that you'll also damage the speakers if you have an over powered amp and you'll risk damage to both speakers and amplifier if the impedances don't match.
buy an amp where u can change the settings, i have the onkyo sr605 but have some surrounds at 4 ohms, i just chaged the settings and it was all fine by way got jamos on order and cant wait
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Old 05-03-2008, 17:04
niall campbell
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on page 6 of your manual the EXT button may accept sound from the telly if you have a fully pinned scart

and this depends if the scart sockets on back of the telly will send the signal to the amp

it also depends if you can control the scarts as well on the telly. Some tellys will pick up the signal on AV 1 for example and send it down AV 3 to a dvd recorder

however need to know your telly model number

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/co...25_GB_0427.pdf
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Old 06-03-2008, 13:21
GDK
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WRONG



I'm sorry, but "telltart1" is correct.

Once an under-powered amp runs out of steam it starts "clipping" - this causes distortion and can lead to speaker damage.
Right. I've done a bit more reading up on this trying to sort out the myths and misunderstandings from the facts and so I offer up my explanation. I still don't accept that having an amp rated higher than the speakers is the sensible answer to the "clipping" problem.

It is true to say that driving an amp into "clipping" creates undersirable harmonics in the signal (distortion). These harmonics are "energy" delivered into the speakers, just like the original signal. Energy in the speakers is dissipated as sound and heat. Clipping can mean that as much as twice the rated amplifier power can be delivered into the speakers. Both excessive sound vibration and heat can damage speakers. Therefore, listening to music with the amp turned up far enough to produce distortion can damage the speakers, even if the speaker and amp power ratings are matched. Therefore the correct answer is to use correctly matched speakers for your amp, and don't use the amp at anywhere near maximum volume and certainly keep it lower than the point where distortion is audible.

Another cause of clipping is when the impedance of the speakers doesn't match the amplifier. Too low or too high an impedance will cause an amp to clip sooner (i.e. at a lower volume), so introducing distortion which could cause the speaker to fail.

Lastly, you're more likely to turn up the volume into the clipping region to achieve the desired listening level on a lower rated amp than a higher rated one, so increasing the chances of driving it into the region where it will clip (and cause speaker damage). Conversely a higher rated amp will clip at a higher volume, so you can safely listen at higher volumes using a higher rated amp than when the same speakers are driven by a lower rated amp.

And that's the sense in which tellytart, simon and infiniteloop are correct. A higher rated amp will distort at higher volumes than a lower rated amp.

However, the real answer is to have speakers and amp correctly matched, and never turn the volume up so far as to cause distortion.
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Old 06-03-2008, 15:03
Deacon1972
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Another cause of clipping is when the impedance of the speakers doesn't match the amplifier. Too low or too high an impedance will cause an amp to clip sooner (i.e. at a lower volume), so introducing distortion which could cause the speaker to fail.
I could understand the amplifier having issues by having 4ohm speakers connected when it's only capable of driving 8ohm speakers, but not when having 16ohm speakers connected because they are easier to run as they draw less power from the amplifier than 8ohm speakers would.
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Old 06-03-2008, 15:45
Nigel Goodwin
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I could understand the amplifier having issues by having 4ohm speakers connected when it's only capable of driving 8ohm speakers, but not when having 16ohm speakers connected because they are easier to run as they draw less power from the amplifier than 8ohm speakers would.
The 16 ohm speakers will only provide just over half the output power from the amplifier - so if you were running at stupidly loud volume levels it might clip, whereas you may be able to reach the same levels without clipping feeding 8 ohm speakers. Obviously it all depends on how efficient the speakers are as well.

But essentially it's VERY simple, don't EVER use speakers of lower impedance than the minimum the amp is specced for (you WILL blow the amp), and don't use amplifiers and speakers that are too low a power for the job and have to be 'thrashed within an inch of their lives' to provide enough volume.
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Old 06-03-2008, 16:12
gaznik
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Nail

Its an lg 32 lc2db.
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Old 06-03-2008, 17:06
niall campbell
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ok will look up online manual

have you tried putting amp on , then watch something on telly on another channel and hitting EXT on the amp remote control ??

do you hear anything ??
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Old 06-03-2008, 17:29
niall campbell
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http://gb.lgservice.com/gcsc/b2c/hpi...command.OwmCmd

looking up manual there is nothing to suggest that the scart signal can be re-directed down another scart connection

unless the EXT on the remote works for you there looks like nothing really can be done

on page 19 is a scart output for another telly/ monitor, but it doesnt really help as you have only one scart on your amp .......................................... and pressing EXT doesnt mean your amp accepts input on the scart connection or output only
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Old 07-03-2008, 00:19
gaznik
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Nail, firstly thanks for all your help.
From what your saying(or how i read it) are you trying to get the Sky+ output into the dvd via a scart from the tv. If the scart does this and the scart ext on the dvd excepts it can i not just run the scart from sky+ to the dvd without going through the tele and run the picture to the tv via s video for example.
If the dvd scart ext excepts an input, do i have to change any settings to do this .
again thanks starting to get confused again though.
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Old 07-03-2008, 18:02
niall campbell
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you will need to either keep using the set up you have OR buy an amp with more connections


you should be able to select different sound options to make the stereo source from sky be in surround mode



The next amp should have HDMI inputs so you hook everything up to it and you only have 1 HDMI cable going to telly from the output on the amp



some dvd/ amps like yours can do what I suggested and its just a pity yours doesnt. You are not alone in this frustration
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