[Trollheart]

About to shoot my old Panasonic HS in the head: it's regularly crashing, losing all recorded progs, the timer just doesn't work no more, and the DVD tray sticks almost every time. Last time I spent half an hour trying to get a disc out --- had to use a knife to push the tray open in the end!

So what do I go for? My Panny is about 5 or 6 years old now, and cost a bundle when I got it, but now I'm looking at better ones for a third of the price! So for about EUR 300 or so (I'm in Ireland), what should I go for? Panny again? Sony? Mitsubishi? Something else? I'd ideally like one that plays, if not records on, DVD-RAMs, as I have a ton of those, and of course the usual features --- chasing play, edit progs, divide etc etc. Something that played music CDs/MP3 would be good too (mine doesn't) and maybe DIVX (doesn't recognise that either).

So, any suggestions? Anything I should steer clear of?

Thx for any input!

[Kie]

I think you will have more success if you post this in the Home Entertainment Equipment section.

Personaly I would never buy a DVD recorder again, I've always found recording onto DVDs is hit and miss and every one I've bought has ended up faulty within 18 months.

I now use a PVR with a hard disk and DVD recorder. I always record to hard disk and then only copy to DVD if I want to keep the recording. Fast dubbing takes about 15 minutes for a two hour DVD. We have Toshiba and Liteon PVRs though I doubt anyone more knowledgeable about these things would rate them very highly

If you want DVD ram recoding then a samsung would probably be worth looking at

http://www.digitaldirect.co.uk/produ...oduct_id=14111

[Trollheart]

Thanx. I did think about a PVR (still am), but had a few concerns.
1. The output quality. Is it TV grade? Does a program recorded from the PVR onto a DVD disc and then played in a DVD player via a telly look ok, or is it more like getting AVIs/MPEGs?

2. How reliable are they? Can you set timers etc and if so do they generally work?

3. Does running one take a lot of resources from your machine? Can you do other stuff while, for instance, recording a prog?

4. How easy/hard is it to edit breaks out, or split progs up, and can you title them so that on the dvd you can see what you're watching?

5. What sort of connection to the telly is there from the PC? Is it SCART?

6. How large are the files when you record? Like, for an episode of Ashes to Ashes or whatver, how big would a file for that be? And can you/do you have to record in different formats, eg HQ/LQ/EP/SP etc?

These questions make me wary of getting a PVR, but it is an alternative option.
I must say, I've had very few problems with my Panasonic, apart from once having to send it back to get the hard disc replaced! It's old now, so it's starting to fail, but it has given me very good service and I've managed to save an awful lot of programs and films onto DVD discs thanks to it. It's also a very handy "sky-plus-type" thing, in that you can keep progs on it and watch them at your leisure.

[Kie]

Quote:

1. The output quality. Is it TV grade? Does a program recorded from the PVR onto a DVD disc and then played in a DVD player via a telly look ok, or is it more like getting AVIs/MPEGs?

Quality of the recording is as good as the TV reception. I've never noticed any difference between recording to HD and watching or recording to HD then copying to DVD and watching.

Quote:

2. How reliable are they? Can you set timers etc and if so do they generally work?

Both the Toshiba and liteon are 100% reliable so far. Timers just work as expected.

Quote:

3. Does running one take a lot of resources from your machine? Can you do other stuff while, for instance, recording a prog?

The liteon - no the toshiba yes. It will record onto the hard disk and play a DVD at the same time. I can't comment on any other models.

Quote:

4. How easy/hard is it to edit breaks out, or split progs up, and can you title them so that on the dvd you can see what you're watching?

The liteon is much easier to edit on the hard drive before recording onto DVD, adverts plus padding is easy to remove. The toshiba is a bit more difficult. When splitting files the toshiba doesn't alter the time of the recording. Both allow naming of the recording which is then shown in the DVD menu.

Quote:

5. What sort of connection to the telly is there from the PC? Is it SCART?

Scart - all models, some have AV, S-video or HDMI

Quote:

6. How large are the files when you record? Like, for an episode of Ashes to Ashes or whatver, how big would a file for that be? And can you/do you have to record in different formats, eg HQ/LQ/EP/SP etc?

No idea because they are on the hard disk but I'm guessing they are exactly the same size as the files recorded to DVD. Most have the recording options HQ/LQ/EP/SP i.e 1 hour on a DVD, two hours on a DVD etc.

PVRs are "brilliant" - no pratting around with DVDs, hoping that they will format before the program starts or checking which one you used for last weeks episode. Just press record and that's it. Then it's easy to put multiple recordings onto DVD.

The HDs now will store at least 100 hours of TV for as long as you like. Many now have the timeslip feature where you can record and pause the program you are watching.

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kie

I now use a PVR with a hard disk and DVD recorder. I always record to hard disk and then only copy to DVD if I want to keep the recording. Fast dubbing takes about 15 minutes for a two hour DVD.

I'm confused about this, I take it from your post that you have a separate DVD recorder (minus hard disk) and a PVR (with hard disk obviously). How do you fast dub?

[chrisjr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Thanx. I did think about a PVR (still am), but had a few concerns.
1. The output quality. Is it TV grade? Does a program recorded from the PVR onto a DVD disc and then played in a DVD player via a telly look ok, or is it more like getting AVIs/MPEGs?

2. How reliable are they? Can you set timers etc and if so do they generally work?

3. Does running one take a lot of resources from your machine? Can you do other stuff while, for instance, recording a prog?

4. How easy/hard is it to edit breaks out, or split progs up, and can you title them so that on the dvd you can see what you're watching?

5. What sort of connection to the telly is there from the PC? Is it SCART?

6. How large are the files when you record? Like, for an episode of Ashes to Ashes or whatver, how big would a file for that be? And can you/do you have to record in different formats, eg HQ/LQ/EP/SP etc?

These questions make me wary of getting a PVR, but it is an alternative option.
I must say, I've had very few problems with my Panasonic, apart from once having to send it back to get the hard disc replaced! It's old now, so it's starting to fail, but it has given me very good service and I've managed to save an awful lot of programs and films onto DVD discs thanks to it. It's also a very handy "sky-plus-type" thing, in that you can keep progs on it and watch them at your leisure.

A PVR in the conventional sense of the abbreviation is NOT the same as a DVD recorder plus hard drive.

So on that basis to answer your questions.

1/ Playback quality will be no different to live TV via the same device. A PVR records the raw digital data from the multiplex onto the drive. it then chucks it back at the same decoder that the live TV uses. So in theory watching a recording should be no different to watching live as no conversion of format of the data has taken place.

If you copy that to DVD then there will be a loss in quality. Especially as the only way to do so is to play the PVR recording and record it in real time on the DVD. So you go from Digital to Analogue in the PVR and from Analogue to Digital in the DVD. Which will impact on picture quality. But given a good DVD at the best quality for the duration of the programme yopu ought not to notice very much loss.

2/ With most PVRs you just open the EPG point at the programme you want and press Record. The PVR takes care of setting timers and some can even track changes in the broadcast time so you end up recording the whole of what you want even if the programme is delayed for some reason.

3/Most PVRs are designed from the ground up to record one channel and watch another. Some can even record two and watch one. Or record two and play a previous recording.

4/ Editing is probably NOT a core PVR function. Though all the ones I have seen automatically record the programe title and time of transmission.

5/ PC? I thought we were talking PVR? Or are you thinking Media Centre which is a whole different beast altogether. But SCART is more or less standard. And more are coming out with HDMI.

6/ File size on a PVR is not something you can define. Because they record the raw data stream directly the actual amount of data recorded can vary depending on the bitrate of the channel you are recording. For example a BBC1 programme probably uses 3 or 4 times as much room as an ITV4 recording! Since they record the raw data stream then there are NO quality options. They just record exactly what is broadcast at whatever quality the broadcaster decides to use that day.

Of course all the above only applies to a PVR as conventionally defined. basically a Freeview box with a disk drive in it. I think you may be confusing it with other devices which are not PVRs

A DVD recorder with hard disk may have some of the core functions of a PVR. However very few if any let you record one channel while watching another. Even fewer do two record watch something else.

A Media Centre PC is a computer with one or more tuner cards in it. Something else entirely. It can have all the functions of a PVR and a DVD recorder and obviously a PC. But PVR it ain't

[Kie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

I'm confused about this, I take it from your post that you have a separate DVD recorder (minus hard disk) and a PVR (with hard disk obviously). How do you fast dub?

It's just my incorrect use of accepted terminology. I have a hard disk with DVD recorder (and VHS recorder built in as well), I think of it as a PVR because that's what it is, a "Personal Video Recorder" onto the HD with the added bonus of a DVD and VHS recorder. I think of anything with a HD as a PVR.

I appreciate most people consider something like the Humax as a PVR.

I did say the OP would be better posting his message in the Home Entertainment section (it was in computing)

[Trollheart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisjr

5/ PC? I thought we were talking PVR? Or are you thinking Media Centre which is a whole different beast altogether. But SCART is more or less standard. And more are coming out with HDMI.

No, I'm talking about a PVR for PC, like the Hauppage things. A card or USB that plugs into the PC and then allow you to watch/record progs. I know there are standalone PVRs like Tivo, but I was speaking about one you plug into your computer, hence all the questions about editing/pic quality etc.

As it happens, I've made up my mind to buy a new standalone DVD recorder, so I guess for me this makes the thread moot. But thanks for all the replies.

[niall campbell]

get one with a hard drive, HDMI output, upscaler to at least 1080 i and a freeview tuner

RGB INPUT would be nice as well for recording in best quality