there is loads of violence in the Old Testament

Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones.
Deuteronomy 2:34 utterly destroyed the men and the women and the little ones.
Deuteronomy 28:53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters.
I Samuel 15:3 slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.
2 Kings 8:12 dash their children, and rip up their women with child.
2 Kings 15:16 all the women therein that were with child he ripped up.
Isaiah 13:16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled and their wives ravished.
Isaiah 13:18 They shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.
Lamentations 2:20 Shall the women eat their fruit, and children.
Ezekiel 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids and little children.
Hosea 9:14 give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.
Hosea 13:16 their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.


and thats just the bit about abortion

funnily that popped up on a rather harmless search

http://www.google.com/search?q=Bible...&start=20&sa=N

This is not an attack certain members thread. If you don't want to read his views, then skip them...you don't have any right to criticise him for writing them.

Well I'm very pleased to hear that. Have you ever heard of the ignore option if I am "ruining" your enjoyment?

Perhaps you should just avoid certain threads or haven't you been able to work that out yet?

Why not ? I have read plenty of threads where the forum member in question has criticised other forum members for doing exactly THAT and then gone on to be personally abusive about them simply for the person they choose to vote for .

I'd like to press the ignore button but I'd never have a thread to read.

Personally I've only ever read comments from the member in question that are either a) relevent to the thread topic or b) in defence of himself towards other abusive members.

Again, if you don't like it, don't read it.

Since you wish to go down the road of attacking other forum members' contributions very well.

With a few honourable exceptions, I find the vast majority of the pro-Cameron sentiments to be utterly specious ("He's only human", "he's struggling with his faith") and poorly expressed. Very few posts actually seem to tackle the actual incidents described on this forum - and quite a few posters (mentioning no names as it's pointless and counter-productive) come across as trolls incapable of punctuating their posts properly or expressing a well thought-out argument.

Happy now?

Kindly give examples of this "personal abuse" please - and if you do have a specific problem might I suggest you use the private message system rather than "ruin" other people's enjoyment of the actual subjects under discussion.

Thank you.

Thanks for that.

Well this thread is ruined now. I can't see anybody getting back to discussing Cameron's religion. *HmPh*

What angle of Cameron could we discuss next?

Jesus turned water into wine, not the other waya round so Cameron should drink more and judge less (judge not, less ye be judged).

All religions are basically elitist and need outsiders to create unity. Religious people need to feel superior to others (imo).

Of course atheists never feel superior to religous types, by saying religon is pointless, all wars are started by religon etc.

Giving an opinion isn't an expression of superiority whilst adherence to a religion is

ok, but it is a very predujuced opinon to make that all people who adhere to religon feel superior. Making an opinon like this adheres to stereotpypes. There may be a lot of people this opinon could be applied to but there are many good people out there, who are relgious, and do a lot of good for this world. If you manage to leave the house late at night, you might see a lot of christian groups feeding the homeless, providing shelter and not once feeling superior to these needy people they help. I find this attitude amazing and how they offer to help without a wage, no questions asked. To sacrifce your life to help others, religous or not, I think they do have a right to feel superior.

Remember there are a lot of ignorant people out there, religous or not.

There are also a lot of people out there who do good without belonging to a religion. It's not a prerequisite. Also, I was referring to the very essence of a religion which supposes that its adherents are morally superior to others and therefore deserving of eternal life which non-adherents are not entitled to. I find that kind of belief system sinister. You may also remember that Jesus did things like send the Ghaderene swine over a cliff and withered fig trees to prove his powers. Why destroy things? Why tell people they will burn in hell of they don't accept the faith?

Also, people who try and do good outside religious organisations are not doing it in the expectation of gaining heavenly brownie points.

I think you have to remember the bible was written almost 2000 years a go by many authors, it has also been translated and revised many times. Of course there is going to a lot of contradictions and confusion. If you take it literaly then you will have problems but if you use it as a good guide to live your life you can't go wrong.

Also a lot of the concepts of heaven and hell were taken by pagan beliefs to make conversion to christianity easier. It is clear to see that many religons are withering away because of their poor response to change. Leave them alone and soon they will go away to be replaced by the church of Tickle, obvisouly.

Errrm...Matt b I really hope my name here was a typo! I most certainly am not " fundamentalist and a born again christian".



However I concede the point that I am creepy!

Without checking, I believe there are plenty of references to hell in the NT. I seem to remember Jesus himself referred to it. As for leading a good life, what about the recent blatant bigotry of the Church with regard to Jeffrey John. Is that living a good life? Is denying contraceptives to overpopulated countries leading the good life? I could go on.

And many fundamentalist Christians believe the word of the Bible is literally true. If you merely follow the ten commandents, of course, that is good but what kind of person needs them to tell them how to behave? The Bible is full of contradictions and people choose what suits them. That's the problem. Lots of people manage to lead a good life without the back up a religion which developed for very particular political and historical reasons which do not apply now.

The whole idea of Hell is one of the things that puts me and many others off the idea of Christianity. Some may find it comforting to believe that all of those who do wrong in this world will suffer eternally in the next, but I find the idea of perpetual torture quite sick. It not's only murderers who go there - it's anybody who doesn't follow Christianity in the exact way the bible says.

Why should a religion have to force people to follow it with such threats (which were largely effective in times past).

Take a pill mate.

I was getting well depressed reading this thread and Spearish chipping that one in brought me back up again. Yay for spearish and matt.b!

*We'll* stop using the sarcasm if *you'll* stop being condescending.

*Deal?*

Good point there by BMM. Could the bible, during all the translations and revisions, have been subverted in anyway?

I personally take all this religious schenannigans with a pinch of table salt. I do have problems with someone bleating on about it and then doing 'un-christian' things. Yeah we aint all perfect, inner turmoil, repent repent etc. but you can't just wear religion like an item of clothing and then chuck it in the wash when it's dirty. If you pick it you stick with it.

Is there a Christians Anonymous? Like Alcoholics Anonymous? Perhaps putting Cam in touch with this organisation could help...

I'd also be interested to hear more about this fundamentalist stuff. The Pope is the Anti-christ? Do tell...

[quote]Originally posted by MacattacK
[b]


Is there a Christians Anonymous? Like Alcoholics Anonymous? Perhaps putting Cam in touch with this organisation could help...
... [/B


Like it!

No condescension whatsoever. I don't like people who can't be specific. Fair enough?

I've taken my pill and moving swiftly along...

cword is of course cameron and not you cword100

Oh my dear ben. I would have thought that you might have realised by now, after 2500 posts, that 'Cam-fan' and 'specific' just doesn't go together...

Don't suppose you have a spare pill do you?

Why don't we just create a new thread: "A Place for Pro and Anti-Cams to bicker and argue"?