Umm.. that's what every thread is about shurely?

Even the ones that aren't even about Cameron always wind back to this sort of squabbling. So why not just make it official, so that it doesn't need to pollute the entire forum.

Cameron doesn't deserve this level of attention. He's a boring, nasty little piece of work. But it's just sooo irresistable

*written as me, Beth, not in any kind of official way*

I've bitten my tongue so hard the past few weeks that I think I'll be talking with a lisp for months.

I am a "born-again" Christian. I can't claim to speak for anyone but myself but I do not believe the bible as being literal nor do I believe myself to be any more superior or more 'good' than anyone else. I am very pleased to have a relationship with God and very proud to say that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour but I struggle daily to follow the path shown to me.

I am not saying this to shove it in anyone's face - I don't believe that to be fair, but I do get frustrated that the general view is that those of us that call ourselves Christians is that we are snooty hypocrites.

~ Beth.

So you're not a determinist universalist then? There's actually a fairly good theological argurment for the above, if you take the gospels to be inerrantist.

hope your tongue gets better soon

Universalist theories are all very nice, but at heart they're just another branch of Christianity. At the present I have no religion...who knows...maybe later in life I will find one, but at the moment I just don't.

What does deterministic universalism mean then? Does it mean you believe that everybody gets to heaven? Does purgatory come into it then? Do you only get in when you have paid for your sins, or do you have to come back to earth over and over until you get it right?

well that shoved me my words right up my arse
OK apologies Its Cam and not the BAC's


I feel like shit now
[SIZE=1]sorry[/SIZE]

I am quite impressed with your tongue biting must have been hard

Hasnt changed my opinion of Cameron though, but of BAC

When I find myself in times of trouble I ask myself this one question... WWCD?...

I'll get my coat...

Well said.

If you read back a bit I actually said that I was sure all born again Christians weren't hypocritcal judgemental persucuting people. I merely think that Cameron fits that particular description.

There are various Christian and non-Christian forms, but basically and broadly it means everyone gets to heaven, yeah. No purgatory, no atomement, if you need to be forgiven, then you will be unconditionally forgiven. It posits that no god of good would want victims, and that few persons on earth can "choose" any god wholeheartedly as things stand, because life gets in the way. Shit happens. Nasty things, that damage people, and make them (sometimes) incapable of feeling loveable or worth anything much. It also does not follow the whole "accept Jesus Christ as your saviour or burn" thing. It promotes trying to live a good life, and trying not to judge. It dosen't say there is only one route to being a good person, or that people of differring faiths have the "wrong" idea.

Of course it can be theologically problematic, in that you might say "well, how the hell does Hitler get to heaven?" I don't know; I'm not a member of such a congregation, and I don't have the whole picture on their beliefs. I'm just saying that scripturally they have as much validity as the confess or burn mentality.

In many ways the Bible can be interpreted any way people want to, but I've always understood the central message to be to try to love people and to try not to judge them, which is fine with me.

No comment on you as an individual Beth: I too have sometimes felt frustrated that the behaviour of individuals is seen as representative of a group to which I belong. However, in my (albeit limited and totally unscientfic) experience, 'born again' Christians often possess a smug self-satisfaction which, in my opinion, Cameron is (another) example of. The irony that this type of behaviour is displayed by someone who stakes a claim to Christian beliefs makes it all the more irritating. Yes, we might accept that we are all, ultimately, weak and prone to sinning. However, I don't think it is unrealistic to expect that someone who describes themselves as a Christian should, in fact, do a bit better than most. I have seen little behaviour from Cameron (apart from reading the bible) which sets him apart from the rest of the HMs as being particularly caring, compassionate, forgiving, understanding, or accepting of difference. This is what I would expect from someone who says he adheres to Christian beliefs.
Perhaps you, or anyone else, might like to offer us some descriptions of Cameron's behaviour in the house that does indeed set him apart from the other in terms of Christian qualities?

Sorry, I'll have to leave that to someone else - I try to make a point of not expressing opinions on specific housemates.

~ Beth.

maybe the reason why cameron is so smug
is because he's a bit better than the other hms


Last edited by thms : 18-07-2003 at 15:13