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Who skated the best Bolero?
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jill1812
18-03-2008
I don't think it's only Chris that bolero doesn't suit, it didn't suit Kyran either.

I think its a shame that the final routine is so restrictive, at that stage we want to see the best they have to offer, so they should be able to a routine that suits their style.
NightCrow
18-03-2008
Originally Posted by FantasticMrFox:
“Suzanne was the far better performer in the first two routines in my opinion. However I'm interested to see what everyone made of the Bolero routines. For me Chris and Frankie's was that little bit more special then Suzanne and Matt's mainly because I thought it was more in keeping with the tone of the piece. And for those who said Chris had no connection with Frankie I hope this was the routine that proved you wrong.

So what do you think guys?

Who did the best Bolero on the night?

Chris and Frankie or Suzanne and Matt?
”

Agree that although Suzanne had the edge on the night in the two other routines, in the Bolero she lost out. It's about passion, intensity...anyone who claims otherwise is not on the right wavelength (or is emotionally castrated!) Suzanne's Bolero was lacking in passion...

So, desperately trying to discount the lovely the little boy in the audience, and the "on the night" adrenalin rush - I really have to conclude that - overall - Chris should have taken the crown. I believe she knew it, he knew it - but the GBP know better. Apparently!

BOTH were worthy finalists, by far the best yet.
thenetworkbabe
18-03-2008
Originally Posted by Jan2555*GG*:
“Can I be terribly controversial !!!!!!! I wish they didnt do Bolero myself.....dont get me wrong Torvill & Dean were superb at it in their day it was wonderful....but if they want to have this lets redo a Chris and Jayne routine why not have a change each year and do Barnum (now that would have suited Chris's style) or Mack & Mabel......or give them the same piece of music and get them to make up there own routine.”

Is there anything though that requires slow and fast movement, has repeated build ups to the next stage that lend themselves to doing something spectacular and a crescendo ending that requires a dramatic finish (to both the performance and effectively the series) ? Most music would have seen Chris breakdancing again whatever it was and would have either produced another dramatic lift from Suzanne or made her daring do inappropriate - giving the title to Chris on a plate. Bolero at least drew them both into new waters where they both had to produce a mix and we could see who could still swim.
thenetworkbabe
18-03-2008
Originally Posted by NightCrow:
“Agree that although Suzanne had the edge on the night in the two other routines, in the Bolero she lost out. It's about passion, intensity...anyone who claims otherwise is not on the right wavelength (or is emotionally castrated!) Suzanne's Bolero was lacking in passion...

So, desperately trying to discount the lovely the little boy in the audience, and the "on the night" adrenalin rush - I really have to conclude that - overall - Chris should have taken the crown. I believe she knew it, he knew it - but the GBP know better. Apparently!

BOTH were worthy finalists, by far the best yet.”

That assumes Chris had any and even if he looked intense whether his routine had any excitement to it. I thought it was so dull that even the intensity didn't work - like looking intense going for a walk. Bolero is dramatic as well as intense and without being able to do someting more dramatic with his partner Chris couldn't be dramatic enough. Suzanne didn't interpret like Claire did last year but she had as much relationship or more with her partner as Chris and more happening on the ice.

Not sure of the last comment either. Kyran's performances last year were probably as good as Chris - Chris had more speed wheras Kyran had more interpretation going on. Watch Kyran fly and the different way they did summersaults - its at least a draw.. There wasn't much in the favourite dances ( or if I recall in the marks) Kyran's Bolero had more connection and more exciting things going on. Suzanne I thought deserved her half points over Claire for putting even more difficulty in and nailing it and she might have been able to do more difficult footwork. I got the impression though that if someone had choreographed Claire with Suzanne's routine it would be a very close race who would look best performing it.

The tour could be great because Suzanne, Claire and Bonnie are all competitive, prety close in overall ability and capable of spurring each other on to try something new to get ahead.
Holly Oaks
18-03-2008
Chris and Frankie. It was alot stronger, more passion, greater connection. I really believed in it.
lovelylissa
18-03-2008
Originally Posted by allafix:
“Ravel's Bolero has nothing to do with lovers throwing themselves off cliffs:”

Maybe Ravel's Bolero wasn't but that's what Torvill and Dean took from it:

Christopher Dean: Bolero came about because we used the music for our early morning. The new season was upon us and we were looking for a new direction, musically and style wise. This became an obvious choice for us. It was one piece of music, that started slow and built to a crescendo, It was intimate and strong, it carried the audience along with us on the journey. The story for us in our heads was of a Romeo Juliet theme. It was about two lovers, who couldn't be together, so they would be together in death. It was a journey up a volcano where they would fling themselves over the edge, and finally be together. A little tragic but it helped with our thought process.

http://www.goldenskate.com/articles/2003/071703.shtml

If they're still doing the fall at the end, I guess the implication is to do the same backstory?
lovelylissa
18-03-2008
Originally Posted by jill1812:
“I don't think it's only Chris that bolero doesn't suit, it didn't suit Kyran either.

I think its a shame that the final routine is so restrictive, at that stage we want to see the best they have to offer, so they should be able to a routine that suits their style.”

Personally I'd love it if they could choose between Mack and Mabel, Barnum and Bolero - but that's just because I'm a bit of a fan of the other two and actually prefer Bolero least!
memmh
18-03-2008
I didn't like either Bolero. I thought Chris & Frankie and Suzanne & Matt all performed the Boleros well but I didn't like the choreography in either case. That's just my personal opinion though and I accept that other people might - and probably do! - think differently.

I love Bolero and I hope that Chris and Jayne perform it next year for its 25th anniversary, but I wouldn't object if the contestants skated to something else in the final. I feel that Bolero is definitely in danger of becoming overdone and no one else's performances of Bolero have ever got to me the way Chris and Jayne's do.

Perhaps instead of choreographing their own Boleros, the finalists should have to choreograph their own unique routine, including choosing what song or other music they want to skate to for that number.
allafix
18-03-2008
Originally Posted by lovelylissa:
“Maybe Ravel's Bolero wasn't but that's what Torvill and Dean took from it:

Christopher Dean: Bolero came about because we used the music for our early morning. The new season was upon us and we were looking for a new direction, musically and style wise. This became an obvious choice for us. It was one piece of music, that started slow and built to a crescendo, It was intimate and strong, it carried the audience along with us on the journey. The story for us in our heads was of a Romeo Juliet theme. It was about two lovers, who couldn't be together, so they would be together in death. It was a journey up a volcano where they would fling themselves over the edge, and finally be together. A little tragic but it helped with our thought process.

http://www.goldenskate.com/articles/2003/071703.shtml

If they're still doing the fall at the end, I guess the implication is to do the same backstory?”

Fair enough, I had tried to find a reference to lovers and cliffs but didn't succeed. Thanks for the link. As the finalists do their own interpretation it doesn't necessarily apply.

More interesting to me was finding out why they started Bolero on their knees, and the fact that the programme would no longer be legal in the Olympics.
memmh
18-03-2008
Originally Posted by allafix:
“More interesting to me was finding out why they started Bolero on their knees, and the fact that the programme would no longer be legal in the Olympics.”

Yup, Bolero caused two changes in the rules. 1st, the loophole that allowed them to spend 18 secs on their knees without it counting as part of the routine was closed. 2nd, it's no longer permissible to "die" on the ice. So no one can say Chris and Jayne didn't make their mark on ice dancing, lol
jill1812
18-03-2008
Originally Posted by lovelylissa:
“Personally I'd love it if they could choose between Mack and Mabel, Barnum and Bolero - but that's just because I'm a bit of a fan of the other two and actually prefer Bolero least!”

I love Barnum, I prefer it to bolero as well!
zelana
18-03-2008
Zaarah & Fred's routine is on the ITV website for anyone who wants to see it. I wasn't at all impressed and in fact laughed at one point as it looked like Fred was manhandling Zaarah like a sack of potatoes.

I thought Chris & Frankies version was the best of the two finalists. For me it was the most emotive of the two. I thought the snakecharmer & headbanger were out of place in Suzanne & Matts version and spoilt it.
Katenutzs
18-03-2008
Originally Posted by zelana:
“Zaarah & Fred's routine is on the ITV website for anyone who wants to see it. I wasn't at all impressed and in fact laughed at one point as it looked like Fred was manhandling Zaarah like a sack of potatoes.

I thought Chris & Frankies version was the best of the two finalists. For me it was the most emotive of the two. I thought the snakecharmer & headbanger were out of place in Suzanne & Matts version and spoilt it.”

I looked at it too and thought it had no chance at all, and for me Chris's Bolero was better than Suzannes but she did better in other 2 dances. Zaraahs wouldn't have had a chance against either so looks like the right 2 made the final
Veri
18-03-2008
Originally Posted by FantasticMrFox:
“To be perfectly honest I was really really enjoying Suzanne and Matt's interpretation until it came to the snake charmer move. That felt as though it had just been lobbed in for the sake of it and broke up the performance for me. This is of course just my opinion though.”

I thought the snake-charmer fit the music pretty well.
Originally Posted by zelana:
“Zaarah & Fred's routine is on the ITV website for anyone who wants to see it. I wasn't at all impressed and in fact laughed at one point as it looked like Fred was manhandling Zaarah like a sack of potatoes.

I thought Chris & Frankies version was the best of the two finalists. For me it was the most emotive of the two. I thought the snakecharmer & headbanger were out of place in Suzanne & Matts version and spoilt it.”

There was, of course, no headbanger in their Bolero.
jill1812
18-03-2008
Originally Posted by Veri:
“I thought the snake-charmer fit the music pretty well.

There was, of course, no headbanger in their Bolero.”

I liked the snake charmer too, it did fit with the music.

I thought I was going mad when I couldn't remember the headbanger in suzanne's bolero
tawny
18-03-2008
Chris & Frankie's by a mile!
Jan2555*GG*
18-03-2008
Originally Posted by lovelylissa:
“Personally I'd love it if they could choose between Mack and Mabel, Barnum and Bolero - but that's just because I'm a bit of a fan of the other two and actually prefer Bolero least!”


I agree lovelylissa bolero is treated like the holy grail of skating when in fact it was just another fantastic routine in a string of fantastic routines done by Chris and Jayne during their competition years. They pushed the envelope in every 'free' routine they did and thats what made them special.

If the two couples competing have to start and finish the routine in the same way as the original how many variations can you do as the Bolero music does not lend it self to too many mood interpretations.

As this is the only time in the competition that the couples get to do their own coreography they should be allowed to express their own personalities and wow us in their own ways not as a pale shadow of Torvill and Dean.

I thought Suzanne was a worthy winner based on ALL her performances on the night and supported her all the way through the competition, but Chris was also a fantastic performer, and they were both stifled a bit by the restrictions of what is basically a dirgefull piece of music.
XXBarbXX
18-03-2008
I prefered Chris and Frankies - I thought it had more feeling. I just couldnt understand Robins comment, and he usually talks such sense
NightCrow
19-03-2008
Interesting thought - that Bolero ought to be dropped now. Fantastic in it's day (and still is), and a great privilege to be able to skate to it. But yes...it could have been done to death by others now.....perhaps?

However, if it was me that had reached the final of DoI, I'd relish the chance to perform a routine to Bolero live on national tv. But then, I can remember it's very first airing, so maybe sentimentality is kicking in
NightCrow
19-03-2008
P.S. Chris and Frankies!
soapyjoes
19-03-2008
Definately Chris and Frankies - it was sooo intense and matched the music perfectly. Suzanne's was beautifully danced but failed to capture the passion IMO
Katenutzs
19-03-2008
I would like to see a change from Bolero, just to spice things up and add creatitivity
Cassie
19-03-2008
I agreed with Robin, Chris & Frankie's routine seemed 'desperate' and far too intense. Although neither of the choreography was outstanding the mood created by Suzanne felt natural (heading banging included). Bolero needs a light touch and this isn't something Chris can achieve.
Hogs Head
19-03-2008
I rather enjoyed Suzanne & Matt's more.
ruth_d
19-03-2008
Yeah the Zaraah bolero is here It is a shame she didn't get to show it off as it looked amazing!
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