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Old 19-07-2003, 17:13
demonise
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I've seen a lot of people say that "Jon is the real winner of BB4" but what does that mean? Does it simply mean that he is the person you will remember the most?

Its like saying that England were the "real winners" of the World Cup 2002 when in reality they got knocked out in the quarter finals.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:14
Friendly Face
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Originally posted by demonise
I've seen a lot of people say that "Jon is the real winner of BB4" but what does that mean? Does it simply mean that he is the person you will remember the most?

Its like saying that England were the "real winners" of the World Cup 2002 when in reality they got knocked out in the quarter finals.
But do you have a reason why England could be considered the real winners?
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:15
demonise
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Originally posted by Friendly Face
But do you have a reason why England could be considered the real winners?
No because they weren't. They got knocked out in the quarter finals.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:16
Friendly Face
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You could say the real winner is the person who had their life improved the most. Another way could be the one who came out with people liking or respecting them the most.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:20
Friendly Face
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I would say that Fed is the real winner of BB4. Although he was human and messed up big time he now seems the most interesting and genuine. Even if he sometimes only says things for effect - at least he doesnt try to hide it or take himself too seriously. He may use big words and bullshit at times but if he's picked up on it he takes it in good part.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:20
demonise
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Originally posted by Friendly Face
You could say the real winner is the person who had their life improved the most. Another way could be the one who came out with people liking or respecting them the most.
Okay I can agree with that but then the argument falls down because they did not win, what is effectively a popularity contest.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:20
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Originally posted by demonise
No because they weren't. They got knocked out in the quarter finals.
I think you've missed the point!
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:21
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Originally posted by demonise
No because they weren't. They got knocked out in the quarter finals.
But my amp goes to 11!
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:22
matt.b
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Originally posted by demonise
Its like saying that England were the "real winners" of the World Cup 2002 when in reality they got knocked out in the quarter finals.
Great example that made me listen
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:22
demonise
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Originally posted by Friendly Face
I think you've missed the point!
In what way? They weren't the "real" winners, Brazil were! They might be my favourite team but that doesn't mean they won it, does it?
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:23
Mesostim
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It's a statement of personal belief as to who the real winner of a Big Brother was....It's noting sinister....Clearly the "real" winner will be Cameron as was the "real" winner last year Kate...But...In financial and popularity terms it was *hack hack....cough cough....rrrgh rghh....J....J....Jesus...Spit it out* Jade....and after the part time fans and to many the real winner was Alex......In a popularity contest with no real skill and so many voting (with the potential to vote more than once) for some seriously superficial reasons then it's to the individual to decide who the real winner was.......

What will also happen is that it will annoy fans of the person who did win...they'll point out that there boy had won because they were more popular...the reply is that more votes were cast, that isn't the same as people etc etc etc....Fun and games for another year......
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:23
Friendly Face
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Originally posted by demonise
Okay I can agree with that but then the argument falls down because they did not win, what is effectively a popularity contest.
Popular in what sense? If one person votes 100 times and another votes once is that the difference in popularity?
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:24
demonise
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Originally posted by matt.b
Great example that made me listen
Ah Matt, just the person! I'm sure you can tell me what you mean by the term "real winner" .
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:25
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Originally posted by demonise
In what way? They weren't the "real" winners, Brazil were! They might be my favourite team but that doesn't mean they won it, does it?
Are you saying "the winners" and "the real winners" are interchangeable?
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:26
demonise
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Originally posted by Mesostim
It's a statement of personal belief as to who the real winner of a Big Brother was....It's noting sinister....Clearly the "real" winner will be Cameron as was the "real" winner last year Kate...But...In financial and popularity terms it was *hack hack....cough cough....rrrgh rghh....J....J....Jesus...Spit it out* Jade....and after the part time fans and to many the real winner was Alex......In a popularity contest with no real skill and so many voting (with the potential to vote more than once) for some seriously superficial reasons then it's to the individual to decide who the real winner was.......

What will also happen is that it will annoy fans of the person who did win...they'll point out that there boy had won because they were more popular...the reply is that more votes were cast, that isn't the same as people etc etc etc....Fun and games for another year......
Thank you Mem, thats the explanation I was after.

As an aside, the most fun to be had on this forum is watching the "debate" between fans of opposing housemates. What some people get away with saying is hilarious.

Cheers
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:27
demonise
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Originally posted by Friendly Face
Popular in what sense? If one person votes 100 times and another votes once is that the difference in popularity?
In some ways yes, the more obsessed you are by the HM, the more you will vote IMO. Which is why you saw people willing to spend £20 or more to get Jon back in.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:28
demonise
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Originally posted by Friendly Face
Are you saying "the winners" and "the real winners" are interchangeable?
No, I'm trying to say the opposite. Whether you think someone is the "real winner" doesn't really change the fact that they are not.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:29
Friendly Face
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Originally posted by demonise
As an aside, the most fun to be had on this forum is watching the "debate" between fans of opposing housemates. What some people get away with saying is hilarious.
Cheers
Yes. People get so worked up about a lot of people who seem pretty neck and neck to me.

The one's I really disliked were Lisa and Justine but of the one's competing now there's not much to choose between them.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:29
Pharcyde
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its a stoopid quote equivalent to someone saying "jade was the real winner of BB3"
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:37
chrissie
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the fact that people may use multiple voting in the BB competition obviously ruins the result of who is the real winner.

one person one vote wouldnt be allowed obviously for endemol financial reasons.

i really do believe that there is a difference between who the public would like to win and would see as the real winner and the person who gets the most votes.

i know this seems obvious but just putting in my two pennorth
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:40
Jennings
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The term "real winner" can also be used to refer to the person who gains most either financially, increased publicity, etc, but didn't actually win.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:40
matt.b
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Originally posted by demonise
Ah Matt, just the person! I'm sure you can tell me what you mean by the term "real winner" .
Dont demonise me, demonise

What I mean with the term is Jon
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:42
EddyBee
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It's a personal view, based on a combination of many factors to include amongst other things........... which HM made the most impact whilst the show was on air, which HM continues to make an impression, which HM has some real talent, which HM has acted & reacted with honesty & integrity, which was the most entertaining & interesting, which HM raised the most stimulating issues, which HM was a stimulating issue !

Then add some consideration of their potential earnings, newspaper and magazine cover appearances, TV appearances, the passion of the fans etc and you begin to get close to finding a Real Winner.

But remember, some HMs are real winners for very different reasons, mainly in that they have refused to prostitute themselves to the BB experience & have remained true to their principles.

SO, for example

- Kate was last year's official winner but Jade and Alex have both earned far more than her. Alex still has a very active fan site, where as Kate's various fan sites collapsed within a few weeks of her coming first etc.

- Alison was evicted after just 2 weeks in the BB3 House, yet has managed to maintain quite a high profile throughout this last year, far higher than some of those HMs that 'lasted' longer like PJ, Lee & Jonny.

- Sandy was a real winner in that he is one of the few HMs to ever state that he was going into the BB House for the experience & mean it ! He has never sought to make financial gain from BB.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:46
demonise
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Originally posted by chrissie
i really do believe that there is a difference between who the public would like to win and would see as the real winner and the person who gets the most votes.

i know this seems obvious but just putting in my two pennorth
I can see there is a difference but why is it there?. Surely the person that the public would like to win is the one who does eventually win otherwise they would be evicted.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:47
Friendly Face
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[--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Friendly Face
Are you saying "the winners" and "the real winners" are interchangeable?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, I'm trying to say the opposite. Whether you think someone is the "real winner" doesn't really change the fact that they are not.
Are you sure you are saying the opposite?

In your view who is the following:

(A) the winner?
(B) the real winner?
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