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Old 19-07-2003, 17:48
Friendly Face
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Originally posted by demonise
I can see there is a difference but why is it there?. Surely the person that the public would like to win is the one who does eventually win otherwise they would be evicted.
Not if some vote 100s of times.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:49
Friendly Face
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Originally posted by Pharcyde
its a stoopid quote equivalent to someone saying "jade was the real winner of BB3"
It doesn't seem stupid if you understand the meaning.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:50
demonise
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Originally posted by Eejay
It's a personal view, based on a combination of many factors to include amongst other things........... which HM made the most impact whilst the show was on air, which HM continues to make an impression, which HM has some real talent, which HM has acted & reacted with honesty & integrity, which was the most entertaining & interesting, which HM raised the most stimulating issues, which HM was a stimulating issue !

Then add some consideration of their potential earnings, newspaper and magazine cover appearances, TV appearances, the passion of the fans etc and you begin to get close to finding a Real Winner.

But remember, some HMs are real winners for very different reasons, mainly in that they have refused to prostitute themselves to the BB experience & have remained true to their principles.

SO, for example

- Kate was last year's official winner but Jade and Alex have both earned far more than her. Alex still has a very active fan site, where as Kate's various fan sites collapsed within a few weeks of her coming first etc.

- Alison was evicted after just 2 weeks in the BB3 House, yet has managed to maintain quite a high profile throughout this last year, far higher than some of those HMs that 'lasted' longer like PJ, Lee & Jonny.

- Sandy was a real winner in that he is one of the few HMs to ever state that he was going into the BB House for the experience & mean it ! He has never sought to make financial gain from BB.
Thank you for replying. However, by your own argument Cameron can be called a real winner. After all, most threads are about him. But I take your point and again thank you for answering my question.

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Old 19-07-2003, 17:50
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Originally posted by chrissie
the fact that people may use multiple voting in the BB competition obviously ruins the result of who is the real winner.

one person one vote wouldnt be allowed obviously for endemol financial reasons.

i really do believe that there is a difference between who the public would like to win and would see as the real winner and the person who gets the most votes.

i know this seems obvious but just putting in my two pennorth
Obvious and sensible but it looks like it needed to be said!
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:51
demonise
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Originally posted by Friendly Face
Are you sure you are saying the opposite?

In your view who is the following:

(A) the winner?
(B) the real winner?
We don't know whose won BB4 yet but for the sake of argument....

(A) Cameron
(B) Cameron
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:53
demonise
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Originally posted by Friendly Face
Not if some vote 100s of times.
True but if you don't vote 100s of times as well, you obviously aren't dedicated enough to ensuring your favourite housemate survives and can't complain when they get evicted.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:53
Friendly Face
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Originally posted by Eejay
- Alison was evicted after just 2 weeks in the BB3 House, yet has managed to maintain quite a high profile throughout this last year, far higher than some of those HMs that 'lasted' longer like PJ, Lee & Jonny.
[/b]
Has she maintained a high profile due to noise?

Sandy didn't seem to get any benefit in any sense at all.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:54
demonise
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Originally posted by Friendly Face
It doesn't seem stupid if you understand the meaning.
That's what I was trying to find out and now I have thanks to Mem and Eejay.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:55
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Originally posted by demonise
We don't know whose won BB4 yet but for the sake of argument....

(A) Cameron
(B) Cameron
Any chance that the above proves my point that some people think "the winner" and "the real winner" are interchangeable?
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:56
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Originally posted by demonise
True but if you don't vote 100s of times as well, you obviously aren't dedicated enough to ensuring your favourite housemate survives and can't complain when they get evicted.
Agreed, but that doesn't mean the "real" winner can be thought of as someone different to the "official" winner.

Who would rather have Kate's life than Alex's?
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:57
chrissie
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Originally posted by demonise
[
Its like saying that England were the "real winners" of the World Cup 2002 when in reality they got knocked out in the quarter finals. [/b]

I cant remember what happened in the w/cup but i think the only way you could say that a certain football team were the 'real winners' would be if they lost due to a bad referee decision.

But on the other hand - it would be the 'winning' team who would go through to the final and possibly win the big prize becoming the winners.

The fans of the original team would always hold that team in their hearts as the 'real winners' but no one else would.

Like me with Alex - he'll always be the 'real winner' - even of this bb as there is no-one to compare with him in this one.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:57
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Originally posted by demonise
Thank you for replying. However, by your own argument Cameron can be called a real winner. After all, most threads are about him. But I take your point and again thank you for answering my question.

I make no mention of Cameron one way or the other. I make no mention of any BB4 HM.

All I am doing is suggesting a few of the criteria that can be used to find a real winner. As in the case of Brian from BB2 it is quite possibly that the official winner is also the real winner. Whether this will be the case this year or not, we shall have to wait to see and discuss.
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Old 19-07-2003, 17:58
demonise
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Originally posted by Friendly Face
Any chance that the above proves my point that some people think "the winner" and "the real winner" are interchangeable?
Now I think I'm missing your point. Please can you elaborate on exactly what you mean.
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Old 19-07-2003, 18:00
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Originally posted by chrissie
ILike me with Alex - he'll always be the 'real winner' - even of this bb as there is no-one to compare with him in this one.
Agreed!

I'd love to see Alex turn up at an eviction and see the evictee get ignored due to Alex being the centre of attention!
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Old 19-07-2003, 18:00
demonise
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Originally posted by Eejay
I make no mention of Cameron one way or the other. I make no mention of any BB4 HM.

All I am doing is suggesting a few of the criteria that can be used to find a real winner. As in the case of Brian from BB2 it is quite possibly that the official winner is also the real winner. Whether this will be the case this year or not, we shall have to wait to see and discuss.
I apologise Eejay I missed the off my last post.

Thanks.
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Old 19-07-2003, 18:02
Friendly Face
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Originally posted by demonise
Now I think I'm missing your point. Please can you elaborate on exactly what you mean.
If you think the "winner" is the official winner and you think the "real winner" is the official winner then the terms must be interchangeable.
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Old 19-07-2003, 18:04
SkyeL1
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Originally posted by demonise
True but if you don't vote 100s of times as well, you obviously aren't dedicated enough to ensuring your favourite housemate survives and can't complain when they get evicted.
Dedication costs money and people's own priorities come into play.

Let's say Tom and Dick liked Tania but Tom has a mortage and 5 kids to support so can only afford to vote 5 times. Dick has just been made redundant and with 3 kids to feed he can only afford to vote once, giving Tania a total vote of 6. Harry liked Sissy, he's still living at home with his parents and has a began a reasonably well paid job, with no money worries he can afford to vote 20 times. So although Tania is the more popular, Sissy wins. To me Sissy would be the 'actual' winner but Tania would be the 'real' winner.

Skye
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Old 19-07-2003, 18:09
demonise
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Originally posted by Friendly Face
If you think the "winner" is the official winner and you think the "real winner" is the official winner then the terms must be interchangeable.
Yes I think the terms "winner" and "real winner" are the same thing, but I was asking what other people thought.

If say for example you thought Ray was the real winner but Steph was in fact the official winner, what makes Ray the real winner to you?
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Old 19-07-2003, 18:11
matt.b
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Originally posted by demonise
Yes I think the terms "winner" and "real winner" are the same thing, but I was asking what other people thought.

If say for example you thought Ray was the real winner but Steph was in fact the official winner, what makes Ray the real winner to you?
real winner = Jon

real whiner = Cam

its that simple
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Old 19-07-2003, 18:12
demonise
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Originally posted by SkyeL1
Dedication costs money and people's own priorities come into play.

Let's say Tom and Dick liked Tania but Tom has a mortage and 5 kids to support so can only afford to vote 5 times. Dick has just been made redundant and with 3 kids to feed he can only afford to vote once, giving Tania a total vote of 6. Harry liked Sissy, he's still living at home with his parents and has a began a reasonably well paid job, with no money worries he can afford to vote 20 times. So although Tania is the more popular, Sissy wins. To me Sissy would be the 'actual' winner but Tania would be the 'real' winner.

Skye
Good analogy but you have no proof of who votes however many times for each person.

I personally think it should be one vote per person only then would you only see the truth about who is the most "popular" but as chrissie pointed out earlier in the thread, endermol would never do that. So it will remain people's perceived opinion about who is the "real" winner.
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Old 19-07-2003, 18:13
demonise
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Originally posted by matt.b
real winner = Jon

real whiner = Cam

its that simple
Awwww Matt!!
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Old 19-07-2003, 18:16
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Originally posted by demonise
Yes I think the terms "winner" and "real winner" are the same thing, but I was asking what other people thought.

If say for example you thought Ray was the real winner but Steph was in fact the official winner, what makes Ray the real winner to you?
Maybe I was getting tied up in semantics!

If Steph went back to her old life and hadn't improved herself personality wise from the experience but Ray - through BB4 publicity - got the opportunity to get into another career that he wanted I would call him the real winner.

There's lots of different reasons for being the real winner. Anouska may consider herself the real winner because she had the opportunity to show her tits to a lot of people!
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Old 19-07-2003, 18:17
Friendly Face
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Originally posted by demonise
Good analogy but you have no proof of who votes however many times for each person.

I personally think it should be one vote per person only then would you only see the truth about who is the most "popular" but as chrissie pointed out earlier in the thread, endermol would never do that. So it will remain people's perceived opinion about who is the "real" winner.
Yes, everyone can be a real winner in their own mind!
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Old 19-07-2003, 18:18
matt.b
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Originally posted by demonise
Good analogy but you have no proof of who votes however many times for each person.

I personally think it should be one vote per person only then would you only see the truth about who is the most "popular" but as chrissie pointed out earlier in the thread, endermol would never do that. So it will remain people's perceived opinion about who is the "real" winner.
If you count several votes per person as a unit called "emotigrams" you could then claim that Cam has more emotigrams than Jon or vice versa, as the person voting has more emotion like hate or love to vote several times.


Still thinking if the introduction of an emotigram would bring it to a continous scale, but as the phone calls are discrete I suppose not. Although the emotional energy would be continous. At a certain tip off point of emotions another call is made.


Therefore Cam will be the winner

Happy now
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Old 19-07-2003, 18:18
demonise
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Originally posted by Friendly Face
Maybe I was getting tied up in semantics!

If Steph went back to her old life and hadn't improved herself personality wise from the experience but Ray - through BB4 publicity - got the opportunity to get into another career that he wanted I would call him the real winner.

There's lots of different reasons for being the real winner. Anouska may consider herself the real winner because she had the opportunity to show her tits to a lot of people!
Finally we understand each other!!!!

Thanks FF, we got there in the end!
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