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Am I the only one who wanted to Punch Nicholas?
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Cadence
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by Sylvia:
“As someone else has already alluded to, he's probably fine so long as he stays among his 'own sort'”

Yes I had the impression his world consisted of a very particular social strata such that he unknowingly made social gaffs when he stepped outside that.
floraandfauna
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by Cadence:
“The problem is of course that we only see edited extracts of the tasks rather than live them for hours as do the teams so it's difficult to analyse who's more at fault. My opinion is that as PM, Alex had to delegate and to some extent had to rely on his team conveying accurate information to him - a very basic task with which you'd think any adult could be entrusted. Having delegated the pricing task to someone, it wouldn't be efficient for him to cover the same ground himself. However what he might have done, as someone commented elsewhere, is delegate the pricing to two or more of the team so that presumably there'd be inbuilt checks from the others against individual error. It depends on what other tasks there were for the team to cover really as to whether it would have been effective to allocate pricing to more than one person. It was a fairly essential task so perhaps more resources (in terms of people) should have been devoted to it.”

Yep good idea, that would have been much better to have more than one to do the pricing, especially as it was given to someone who wasn't really a mathematician. Again this is something which falls to Alex for not delegating effectively
floraandfauna
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by sezzie:
“I was slightly disappointed when Nicholas got fired, because I think he would have been interesting(/amusing ) to watch on subsequent programmes.

I agree with what you say about Alex (and I couldn't give a monkeys about his so-called good looks :yawn - he was a shit PM, but somehow managed to garner favour by saying he was the only one to 'step up to the plate'.

Oh well, it's early days yet, so I don't really know who I actually like or dislike yet. Roll on the next 11 weeks ”

I think the way the editing went tonight it was obvious at the start of the task Alex was going to take Nicholas into the boardroom, I'm just disappointed at SAS for being taken in by the ramblings of a man clinging on for dear life

Ah well like you say it's early days and I don't have a favourite I don't think we saw enough of the others to decide who I like as yet. I did see enough of Alex to know I never want to see him again though
Cadence
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by floraandfauna:
“Yep good idea, that would have been much better to have more than one to do the pricing, especially as it was given to someone who wasn't really a mathematician. Again this is something which falls to Alex for not delegating effectively ”

Yep you could get Alex on that point. He might not have been adequately familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of the others as individuals (having just met them) which might have made it difficult to allocate tasks. However he could have devoted more people to the crucial tasks.
Cythna
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by floraandfauna:
“Yep good idea, that would have been much better to have more than one to do the pricing, especially as it was given to someone who wasn't really a mathematician. Again this is something which falls to Alex for not delegating effectively ”

It would have helped, but as the problem was that they were selling monkfish tails in error for a much cheaper fish, not compleatly. It was Raef who made the mistake on the fish, and he apparently asked for the advice of the others, and they all, including Alex, gave it, wrongly as it turned out. There didn't seem to be a pricing problem with the fish that had been correctly identified.
Cadence
27-03-2008
It's obvious that Nick has never done a supermarket shop in his life if he mixes up £ per kilo with £ per unit.
omgwtfbbq
27-03-2008
I didn't like Alex neither and I actually wanted him to be fired until the boardroom where Nicholas started digging himself a hole. I agreed with Nicholas that he was going to be the scapegoat, and I was sort of glad he pounced on Alex in the boardroom before Alex got the chance to make him the scapegoat, but then when Alex, Nicholas and Raef returned to the boardroom, that's where Nicholas really started digging his own grave. Then I didn't mind who got fired as long as it was Alex or Nicholas.
sezzie
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by Cadence:
“The problem is of course that we only see edited extracts of the tasks rather than live them for hours as do the teams so it's difficult to analyse who's more at fault. My opinion is that as PM, Alex had to delegate and to some extent had to rely on his team conveying accurate information to him - a very basic task with which you'd think any adult could be entrusted. Having delegated the pricing task to someone, it wouldn't be efficient for him to cover the same ground himself. However what he might have done, as someone commented elsewhere, is delegate the pricing to two or more of the team so that presumably there'd be inbuilt checks from the others against individual error. It depends on what other tasks there were for the team to cover really as to whether it would have been effective to allocate pricing to more than one person. It was a fairly essential task so perhaps more resources (in terms of people) should have been devoted to it.”

Originally Posted by floraandfauna:
“Yep good idea, that would have been much better to have more than one to do the pricing, especially as it was given to someone who wasn't really a mathematician. Again this is something which falls to Alex for not delegating effectively ”

I'm not a business woman, my background is classical music. However, I find myself shouting at the screen when seeing such fundamental mistakes as made by the likes of Alex. If I was a PM, I'd be watching every move made by my team like a hawk! Maybe that's the discipline instilled in me as a musician! I'm not just picking on Alex here, this is a recurring theme on The Apprentice for me. I don't think (I hope I'm not, anyway!) I'm a control freak, but I have a need to know exactly what's going on and exactly who is responsible for what. If I was on The Apprentice, I would be ashamed to have behaved like both PMs tonight tbh. I'd also be ashamed to call myself a barrister if I was Nicholas!
floraandfauna
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by Cadence:
“Yep you could get Alex on that point. He might not have been adequately familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of the others as individuals (having just met them) which might have made it difficult to allocate tasks. However he could have devoted more people to the crucial tasks.”

The problem there was that he did give (did he call them 'his boys'?) the sales job with him, after rollocking Nicholas and Raef for getting it wrong. He didn't say anything to the salesmen who weren't selling very much

This, to me, seemed to be where the split occurred
Cadence
27-03-2008
A big problem as I saw it was the decision (in desperation presumably) to try and dispose of their excess fish to a firm of solicitors. Whose decision was that? They were in Islington, a fairly up market area of London and one that is packed with restaurants so far as I'm aware. Maybe they should have got the numbers of a few local fish restaurants and contacted them.
floraandfauna
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by Cythna:
“It would have helped, but as the problem was that they were selling monkfish tails in error for a much cheaper fish, not compleatly. It was Raef who made the mistake on the fish, and he apparently asked for the advice of the others, and they all, including Alex, gave it, wrongly as it turned out. There didn't seem to be a pricing problem with the fish that had been correctly identified.”

I was about to pick up on that too, although Raef was given the task we saw a few of them looking at the manual deciding which fish were what. Raef and Nicholas were wrongly blamed for this.

Nicholas did try to explain this in the boardroom but Alex just shouted over him to cover his own mistakes up every time Nicholas tried to get his point across
sezzie
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by floraandfauna:
“I think the way the editing went tonight it was obvious at the start of the task Alex was going to take Nicholas into the boardroom, I'm just disappointed at SAS for being taken in by the ramblings of a man clinging on for dear life

Ah well like you say it's early days and I don't have a favourite I don't think we saw enough of the others to decide who I like as yet. I did see enough of Alex to know I never want to see him again though ”

The trouble is, SAS is a bit of a sucker for the 'working class vs posh' thing. In my opinion, Alex was just as much of a tosser as Nicholas - Nicholas just happened to have a few more plums in his gob
floraandfauna
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by sezzie:
“I'm not a business woman, my background is classical music. However, I find myself shouting at the screen when seeing such fundamental mistakes as made by the likes of Alex. If I was a PM, I'd be watching every move made by my team like a hawk! Maybe that's the discipline instilled in me as a musician! I'm not just picking on Alex here, this is a recurring theme on The Apprentice for me. I don't think (I hope I'm not, anyway!) I'm a control freak, but I have a need to know exactly what's going on and exactly who is responsible for what. If I was on The Apprentice, I would be ashamed to have behaved like both PMs tonight tbh. I'd also be ashamed to call myself a barrister if I was Nicholas!”

I love classical music

I agree with you it's the fundamental mistakes that are the problem with candidates and it's the easy mistakes that are the problem too, saying that I don't think I could do what they do they'd eat me alive

Although I disagree with tonights firing, I agree Nicholas didn't do himself justice in the boardroom, being a barrister I would have expected much more of a fight from him!
Cadence
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by sezzie:
“I'm not a business woman, my background is classical music. However, I find myself shouting at the screen when seeing such fundamental mistakes as made by the likes of Alex. If I was a PM, I'd be watching every move made by my team like a hawk! Maybe that's the discipline instilled in me as a musician! I'm not just picking on Alex here, this is a recurring theme on The Apprentice for me. I don't think (I hope I'm not, anyway!) I'm a control freak, but I have a need to know exactly what's going on and exactly who is responsible for what. If I was on The Apprentice, I would be ashamed to have behaved like both PMs tonight tbh. I'd also be ashamed to call myself a barrister if I was Nicholas!”

Well I certainly agree with your last sentence sezzie

I don't have a management background either and I wonder how closely it's possible to check on people's actions. You can't do their jobs for them, but you do need to keep a handle on the different components of a task to see that they're being performed effectively. I don't know how a project manager strikes a balance. Maybe someone will come along and enlighten us!
floraandfauna
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by Cadence:
“A big problem as I saw it was the decision (in desperation presumably) to try and dispose of their excess fish to a firm of solicitors. Whose decision was that? They were in Islington, a fairly up market area of London and one that is packed with restaurants so far as I'm aware. Maybe they should have got the numbers of a few local fish restaurants and contacted them.”

I'm not sure whose idea that was but Michael lost them money in that one but yet that wasn't really picked up on! The girls had the best idea going to restaurants, simple really solicitors or restaurant who sells food
Originally Posted by sezzie:
“The trouble is, SAS is a bit of a sucker for the 'working class vs posh' thing. In my opinion, Alex was just as much of a tosser as Nicholas - Nicholas just happened to have a few more plums in his gob ”

As a working class person myself I do think it's unfair that he goes for the working class one especially when they are the worst out of the bunch.
realitybyte2
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by Cadence:
“I think it was a ridiculous thing to say. If you looked at his CV he had 'A's and some A stars. If he'd had a universally excellent performance at GCSE he'd have had numerous GCSE's all at A star. What the does it matter? It was probably a matter of a few marks - not something that's a lifelong crisis. He'd have been better making a more realistic assessment of his strengths and weaknesses rather than getting hung up over a grade B in GCSE French.”


'Relatively speaking' Nicholas is something of a failure - to have a middle class background, a father running a law firm (and hosting his art), and then get a string of A's at GCSE and A Level (excluding the poor B), he should have been in Oxbridge. However, even with his Alpha background he didn't achieve this. King's College is an excellent uni...but anyone going to the Bar knows Oxbridge is the place to go (if one can). Given that he's such an academic snob, he should be more hung up about this glaring career failure rather than his French B.

While he is undoubtably clever, he lacked innate common sense and humility which made him a crap businessman.
Cadence
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by Cythna:
“It would have helped, but as the problem was that they were selling monkfish tails in error for a much cheaper fish, not compleatly. It was Raef who made the mistake on the fish, and he apparently asked for the advice of the others, and they all, including Alex, gave it, wrongly as it turned out. There didn't seem to be a pricing problem with the fish that had been correctly identified.”


They were doing the identification in a rush weren't they, with the consequence it was something of a shambles (as SAS would say). Why were they so much later off the mark than the girls in getting to the market and looking at the stock?

They must have lost quite a lot selling lobsters for just under £5 per lobster - a loss of about £10 per item which could total a lot, depending on how many lobsters they had.
sezzie
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by floraandfauna:
“I love classical music

I agree with you it's the fundamental mistakes that are the problem with candidates and it's the easy mistakes that are the problem too, saying that I don't think I could do what they do they'd eat me alive

Although I disagree with tonights firing, I agree Nicholas didn't do himself justice in the boardroom, being a barrister I would have expected much more of a fight from him!”

Glad you like classical music. Give us a gig guv

I can't judge this lot yet, but based on past series, I've no idea how the candidates have the jobs they claim to have, cos they've all been incompetent tossers!

Maybe there should be a new RTV show - 2nd Trumpet to Sezzie - SAS, apply if you dare
saj2
27-03-2008
I was so happy when he got fired.

He did a lot of boasting but very little action

Sir Alan got it spot on
sezzie
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by Cadence:
“Well I certainly agree with your last sentence sezzie

I don't have a management background either and I wonder how closely it's possible to check on people's actions. You can't do their jobs for them, but you do need to keep a handle on the different components of a task to see that they're being performed effectively. I don't know how a project manager strikes a balance. Maybe someone will come along and enlighten us!”

Are you perfect, imperfect, or unfinished?

I would have thought that on a hands-on project, like a fish selling market stall, it would be pretty easy to keep an eye on what your fellow team mates were up to. Nul points Alex
floraandfauna
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by sezzie:
“Glad you like classical music. Give us a gig guv

I can't judge this lot yet, but based on past series, I've no idea how the candidates have the jobs they claim to have, cos they've all been incompetent tossers!

Maybe there should be a new RTV show - 2nd Trumpet to Sezzie - SAS, apply if you dare ”

Love to but I'm a pauper

I don't know how they have these jobs either as I can't see half of them managing a p**s up in a brewery, but I have seen a CV of someones today and it's the biggest fairytale since the bible so I suppose it is possible somehow
Cadence
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by realitybyte2:
“'Relatively speaking' Nicholas is something of a failure - to have a middle class background, a father running a law firm (and hosting his art), and then get a string of A's at GCSE and A Level (excluding the poor B), he should have been in Oxbridge. However, even with his Alpha background he didn't achieve this. King's College is an excellent uni...but anyone going to the Bar knows Oxbridge is the place to go (if one can). Given that he's such an academic snob, he should be more hung up about this glaring career failure rather than his French B.

While he is undoubtably clever, he lacked innate common sense and humility which made him a crap businessman.”


That's very interesting. Indeed, there's no mention of any failure to get into Oxbridge and with his background that's precisely where he would have been aiming. Instead he plays up a relatively insignificant grade B in GCSE French
sezzie
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by floraandfauna:
“I'm not sure whose idea that was but Michael lost them money in that one but yet that wasn't really picked up on! The girls had the best idea going to restaurants, simple really solicitors or restaurant who sells food


As a working class person myself I do think it's unfair that he goes for the working class one especially when they are the worst out of the bunch.”

Snap - it's bloody patronising
floraandfauna
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by saj2:
“I was so happy when he got fired.

He did a lot of boasting but very little action

Sir Alan got it spot on”

They all do a lot of boasting he's no different to the others. He was given a task which didn't suit him at all, but under the circumstances he didn't do too badly. Alex on the other hand, got everything wrong, he delegated ineffectively, they barely made a profit, he left the decision to sell the last stock to someone else, he blamed others because he panicked over the realisation of how badly he had done
sezzie
27-03-2008
Originally Posted by floraandfauna:
“Love to but I'm a pauper

I don't know how they have these jobs either as I can't see half of them managing a p**s up in a brewery, but I have seen a CV of someones today and it's the biggest fairytale since the bible so I suppose it is possible somehow ”

Oh well, Raef will still speak to you

Tell us more about the fairytale CV (is it from Liam of BBCH? )
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