I was sad about them killing off Owen and Tosh, but really glad they didn't go with some cheesy deus ex machina (sp?) like last time Owen died, and I hope they don't do it if there's a next series, as I think I would be a bit too far -fetched even for TW.

I think Owen's number was up as soon as he died the first time, as they couldn't really have dead Owen as a long term thing. As for Tosh, I'm not sure what they could have done with the character. Another doomed romance with someone unsuitable? I don't think they could've really explored a relationship with her and Owen, or else the programme would've been in danger of becoming more a show about relationships than a sci-fi show what with Jack and Ianto and Rhys and Gwen. It's a shame though, I thought Tosh was an interesting character, and Owen had really grown on me this series. Still, I am hoping they'll make more use of PC Andy and Rhys in the future, and considering the tiny part Ianto had in the first series, I think the actor has done really well with the character. I know he isn't to everyone's taste though.

Pity about Gwen not getting killed off. She has always annoyed me terribly and I still think she's over-used. I can't understand why she's up for a Welsh BAFTA, I don't watch her in anything else, but if her acting in TW is anything to go by...I wanted to stab her in TW De-Classified after she went on about being 'genuinely in tears' when Tosh died. Perhaps I'm being a heard-hearted bitch, I just thought 'get over yourself love'.

Even sort of horrifying. Owen being trapped and panicking and then that creepy music starting, Toshiko probably knowing she's dying and yet still apologising for Owen's demise as if it's her fault. She was so compassionate she didn't even tell him she had a fatal injury.

As stated on Torchwood Declassified, we don't really know what happens to Owen. We're led to believe that he decomposes. Being alive and trapped in water and not properly dying, all alone and just slowly decomposing...it's horrible. It reminds me of Dr Faustus where he knows he's going to be taken to hell and be tortured forever and the sheer panic he experiences before Mephistopheles arrives. In complete contrast, Tosh at least dies quickly surrounded by people who love her.

A pre-sorry for a ramble...

I'm still a mite weepy even now more than 12 hours after I first watched it. I guess I was so focused on Ianto not dying that I didn't really think how I would respond when other characters died, especially two of them.

I'm having a far easier time with Owen. I think I've been prepared for him to die since he first died. It doesn't make it hurt any less, I've just been saying good-bye for longer. It made sense. Owen's really come a full circle, from the person he was in Fragments to who he was through S1, the person he because throughout S2, dealing with dying and being dead...While they could have stretched his character out for another season, I think he's gone as far as he can go.

Now, Tosh, on the other, it hurts...It hurts so much. The words, "Because you're breaking my heart..."

And I was almost mad about them killing off Tosh. I totally disagree with NM in her interview ; I think there's so much more for her character to do (let's say if they had written it that she wasn't going to feel responsible for killing Owen of course). She could find someone to love her, to settle down with someone. But Tosh's death is what TW stands for almost. She didn't get anything, any of the stuff Gwen is getting and is learning to fight for. Gwen's going to get the normal life after TW that no one else will (I still believe that despite my dislike of Gwen...yeah...). Tosh's life was TW. TW took away anything she loved even though it saved her. Her death is unsatisfying in the way I feel there is so much she never experienced, so much that was taken away from her, so much we don't know about her, and it's only a reminder how all-consuming TW is.

And it wasn't like Suzie's death. Tosh was never mad, she was always human even behind all her technology.

I mentioned to some people I couldn't see a good reason for Tosh to die in the same way I could see a reason for Owen to die. I realize now her reason to die was because there was no reason other than she was in Torchwood. Now that i look at it, they were always setting up to lose someone in addition to Owen; it only turned out to be Tosh because of her thing with Owen (that made it all the more heartbreaking and poignant).

Ummm...yeah, just putting that out there.

Wow, in my opinion the best episode of Torchwood in both series, even with the loss of two of the 'mains'.

Sad that some of the best acting came as a result of being killed off (Tosh) but in fairness perhaps this shows that they haven't used her properly before this.

If only all episodes were this quality!

Shame to lose two in one go but all the more surprising and I guess it does leave the Owen characters fate hanging somewhat.

It was genuinely moving - well done all.

Enjoyed the episode on the whole but felt like shouting at the TV HE WAS ONLY A CHILD
about letting Grey's hand go.

I'm not surprise Owen died as other people have said the "undead" thing couldn't go on for ever.

But please I am really hoping this doesn't mean we will be stuck with Martha Jones now in the next series. I'd rather have new blood.

I went on the actual torchwood website under the missions things and in the ep 13 case files there is a stock take from Owen that says


Voted Excellent !!
I was in tears

Up on earlier ratings but since there was no BBC 3 advance showing, I'd of expected around 3 million. But there again, their schedulers well and truely messed up.

Only thing with that is any clothes he was wearing in TEC/DD that could have been replicated on his Chula Timeship he left behind on the TARDIS (was he even wearing the long coat when he came aboard). He was wearing totally different clothes when killed on the Gamestation. The coat he wore though TW Series 1 would have had to be an ordinary one. Of course he may have picked up his indestructable clothes after the events of TLotTL.


2 weeks into the job Owen was supposed to go to London to investigate a Space Pig but was too hungover. Tosh went in his place and met the 9th Doctor.



My understanding was that Grey took Johns Vortex Manipulator (or maybe broke it so it only did one more trip) but allowed him one more trip through time.

If John had gone to a couple of days later Grey would have been a little suspicious (I'm guessing he would be able to track where John went). Also if John had no means to travel through time then digging Jack up a couple of days later would have meant that while Jack could live through almost 2000 years till 2008, he (John) would have died around 100AD.

It was v.sad. I knew to stay away from here incase of spoilers so I didn't have a clue what was gonna happen. I enjoyed it more doing that but was still gutted at the same time. I think we will end up seeing Owen again.

I thought it was an average to good episode, up until Tosh got shot where it went to very good as it was such a shock and the deaths of both her and Owen have been kept secret, I for one didn't find a spoiler on it (and I did look).
The line 'Because you're breaking my heart...' is for me the best line of the series, not only did it finally bring out Tosh's feelings it showed what a fantastic actress Naoko Mori is, doing it in just the one take, and I am going to miss her.
Although Owen's death was a bit of a suprise to me it seemed inevitable since his first death earier in the series.

Overall I thought it was a great ending to a great series, and had good mix of action, emotion and twists and turns. fantastic writing, direction and performances.

Just watched on iplayer... great stuff...major goosebumps moments, ok certain elements had swiss cheese moments* but as a while very very entertaining

*one techie in a nuclear plant???

Presumably the rest of them had ran off as the one left made acoment about being the Captain going down with the ship.

...best episode ever!

imo the Tosh and Owen scene was the best bit of telly drama to come out of the BBC for a long time-

I actually broke my blubbing record by using nearly 2 entire tissues- even reading these posts is making me well up again- (yes, I know i'm a big wuss!)

Jude

Having a little more time to think, now, here is my more detailed reaction to last night's episode.

It had it's duff moments - there were plot-holes, and the actor who played Grey was pretty poor, IMO.

But the last fifteen minutes redeemed it. Nakao Mori's performance left me stunned, and the final scene between Tosh and Owen was superbly written and genuinely moving. The "wrapping up" scenes and Tosh's final video message were also well-judged and it was good to see genuine grief from the other members of the team.

My genuine hope is that we don't see either Tosh or Owen again. It's very rare for a sci-fi show like Torchwood to kill off a main character, and for me the genuine poignancy of the "death scenes" will be cheapened if either character returns.

It also makes the idea of working for Torchwood being dangerous much more important. We now know that the main characters are not immortal (with one notable exception!) - just because Gwen and Ianto didn't die this time, doesn't mean they're safe.

And Jack's fate - to have to live forever, watching his friends die one by one - is somehow the worst of all.

I'm a big Joss Whedon fan and I was the first person last week to say 'ooh doesn't Fragments sound a bit like Out of Gas?' Nevertheless, initial premise notwithstanding, it was very much it's own episode of it's own show.

Now, I'm very flumoxed by all the posters on here who are demanding that Exit Wounds was stolen in it's entirety from Angel series 4. Yes, I've watched Angel many times. Yes, he was sunk to the bottom of the ocean by his son for a few months. But he wasn't buried in the ground by his brother for hundreds of years!!

There are no truly original storylines in tv - witness how soaps tend to have similar stories going on at the same time!

TW last night deserves its own credit - not to be bashed for supposedly copying Joss Whedon!

I had to dry my tears on the shirt of my OH's superman PJs!

Burn Gorman and Naoko Mori were AMAZING last night - the amount of tears posters have spilt is testament to this. For all the people who wanted Gwen killed off - would it have been half as emotional? I think not.

I must admit I missed what John said first time round, I was pretty stunned and it was all happening so fast. They could have made a two-parter out of it, got a little of Cardiff panicking en masse and suspense as to whether they would get the weevils back under control, sort out the nuclear problem and if they'd get Jack back. It would have been a great cliff hanger. As it was I'm sorry we've lost Tosh and Owen, Burn Gorman has regularly acted the socks off everyone else and they both did it for that one.

Thank you! I thought I was the only one who disliked the character.

I have to admit to shedding tears watching Tosh struggle to get Owen through the his problems without letting on that she was injured by telling him he was breaking her heart. But, when she gave that message out at the end I cried like a little girl. Superb final episode.

O.M.G.

That's all I can say right now, I can't bear to watch the episode a second time because I probably will collapse crying. It was so good, and I'm gonna miss Tosh so much.

I don't think it warrants any serious thought, really. Little of it makes sense. Another question is why Grey allowed John to leave his ring in the grave at all.

Owen and Tosh's deaths came as a shock...although, not too much so. With Owen, I figured they had to eventually find a way to either fix him or kill him. There's only so much they can do with an "undead" type character. Although, with the way he "died", they've still left it open so that the character can return even if only for a brief appearance, which I'm glad of. Although I love Tosh and Owen, I feel that out of all the characters, if anyone had to go, they make the most sense. Owen's storyarc has felt very tightly written and it all clicked into place beautifully. Tosh, it seemed, the writers never quite knew what to do with her. I do feel she was wasted, but her death fit with the overall arc of series two.

My only real complaints about the finale were Jack being buried in the ground for that long and not going completely batshit insane, that I feel the actor for Grey was very miscast and totally unconvincing as Jack's brother, and that I liked John Hart as an all out baddie much more than when he redeemed himself.

Otherwise, it was good enough for me. Series two has been, overall, amazing. I'm sorry that it's over.

When I watched this first time on iplayer late last night I was a tad intoxicated so I decided to give it another whirl tonight and I have to say I was blown away by this episode.

There were the odd poorer points like Gray and a number of plot holes but on the whole this was more than made up for by the acting and emotion which really came through. The portrayals of Owen and Tosh were heartwrenching and I thought some of the dialogue at the conclusion was brilliantly written and pitched. A number of genuinely great lines ("because you're breaking my heart"; "the end is where we start from") that somehow were pulled off without seeming contrived or corny. I also thought the music for this episode was absolutely perfect (for that matter, its been very good all series) and really added to the excitement and the emotion.

Torchwood has come such a long way in the last series - its been an epic leap from the iffy first series and can really stand on its own two feet now. Thats the reason I hope its treated with a little more scheduling respect next time round and isn't chocked full of Doctor Who cast-offs like Martha and Mickey. Crossovers are all well and good but I think it needs to be limited and Torchwood needs to retain its own, darker, sexier, more stylish tone - not become Doctor Who in disguise during the 'Gap Year'.

I don't really want Martha or Mickey in Torchwood either. I like both characters, love Martha, but if they're going to replace Tosh and Owen, I want total newbies. Much more interesting that way.

Was okay...felt somewhat shallow and rushed for the momentous things that happened.

Jack being buried for 2000 years then just appearing again was very rushed !!! In similar examples ***cough Angel/Buffy cough *** the characters had to carry the baggage of experiences like that around with them for a while.

Gwen marshalling the massed forces of the Cardiff Police force ( all 12 of them) was naff.

I agree with other posters , when Captain John turned goodie the character lost a lot of its appeal and he started to look ridiculous trying to behave "normally" whilst dressed as Adam Ant.

Liked the mad monks piece.

Liked Tosh and Owens joint demise, it was very well handled.

Liked Reece and Andy .

Overall Torchwood has been a lot better this season, still room for improvement though.

Especially as she gives the impression that she couldn't marshal a children's birthday party.

Let's see, I like this show but I don't find it that deep so it's hard to care a lot about the characters. It wasn't emotional at all for me to have Owen and Tosh die but then I'm rarely affected by things like that anyway. I'm glad Owen's dead, only because I didn't like how his existence worked after he died the first time. We're asked to ignore far too much with him, he apparently has no breath so can't resusitate someone, I can't pretend that I can see him breathing. How come some of his body works and some doesn't? We couldn't have put up with that for too long and also how long could he have gone on for without getting injured? It'd have been impossible for him in the end. I did like how he went mental when finding out he was trapped, far too many characters on TV get all brave and accepting when they're doomed, it's nice to see the opposite. As others have said, we need them not to come back or there'll be no meaning to dying in the show.

Gray looked believable as Jack's brother, his accent was funny but it doesn't matter, how do we know he hasn't developed that accent where he's been? But would he really be holding a grudge for Jack for all that time? I know he's been tortured and gone mad but really? He wasn't much younger, he had legs, why didn't he get up and run?

I am way too tired to even remember anymore to say.