I'll add my 2p to that.

Sorry, but the plot was pretty weak. Captain John kills all those people because Gray might blow him up? What a nasty, spineless git!

Gray wants to kill his brother because he let go of his hand? He has some unexplained powers to force Captian John to do things for him?

Jack is buried alive for 1900 years and then just picks up where he left off?

And forget all the 'Buffy/Angel' references - what about the 'Lost' flashbacks just before we kill some major characters?

I'm not watching Series 3 - even if John "the chin" Barrowman isn't in it much.

Good - All the more for us to watch!
Hmm, that doesn't really make sense

I am not a John Barrowman fan by any means, but it might be worth checking your facts before you suggest the guy was not an established West End star. We're not talking about a couple of small appearances in plays here the way some actors do it - he had (and still has I imagine) a rock-solid career there and is one of the best-known names. I've never really liked him to be honest, but he has a long and successful career in that genre, regardless of his familiarity to TV audiences. It's kind of like claiming someone like Michael Ball has no career because he hasn't been on television for ages. If you're only familiar with television then JB was probably "that American bloke off Live & Kicking" before he appeared on Doctor Who, but if you know anything about West End theatre, particularly musical theatre, you know him.

Fair enough you might not be remotely interested in that kind of thing - doesn't alter the fact that's what he is known for and why he is on the Andrew Lloyd-Webber programmes (do you really think he got that gig because of DW/TW? How would that work?!) and could no doubt go back to that if all this sci-fi stuff tanks. Though like I say, he's not a fave of mine.

Overall a pretty good episode. It was obivous Owen would go (thank god) but I was surprised Tosh died too.

As expected it had it's enormous plot holes and ludicrous moments too, as if Gwen would take charge of a police force and are we supposed to believe in 27AD some kid would know what Cardiff is or even more ridiculously that a big lost city existed, he also had some kind control of Captain John which spanned 2000+ years. Please!

I wish RTD and Co. wouldn't make the stories so ridiculously complicated that they cannot help but tie each other up in knots. Overall though a decent episode, much better than Episode 12 which was a complete waste of time.

Overall I enjoyed as much as I hated of Torcwhood Series 2 and for that reason alone I won't be bothering with Series 3. I didn't watch Series 1. It just has such sloppy writing in places and is so utterly dumb at times. Episode 11 (Adrift) was brilliant though.

I bet Matha becomes one of the main characters in Torchwood.

p.s - I didn't realise anyone actually used iPlayer. If I missed an episode I'd record/watch the repeat or download it. The idea of getting into something on a little window (or even full-screen) PC monitor just doesn't appeal. If I cannot watch it on my TV I'm not interested.

I watched this one, is was quite enjoyable apart from one major thing, Gray WAS RUBBISH. His accent was poor and acting was abysmal. He was probably the worst major bad guy I've ever seen in doctor who or torchwood. He was as intimidating as balsawood. That plus Gwen didn't die AGAIN, I so want her to get exterminated or something.

I justified his accent to myself by saying that it could very well be from where he's been living. And maybe being tortured by aliens makes you act that way.

Gives you a bad accent? I swear he was dubbed most of the time too, even that couldnt cover it up.

If a human sounds like that it's a bad accent, but he's not human and we don't know who he's been around. You can justify it if you want to.

He is human. As human as his brother is (or was - whether you still call him human after Rose resurrected him is another question).

But still, I agree that it's daft to complain about his accent. He was brought up in the Boeshane (?) Peninsula, wasn't he? Is there anybody here who can tell us exactly what kind of accent they have over there?

I wasn't bothered by what the accent was meant to be, just that it was so bad. It sounded like an english actor trying to do an american accent and failing. That coupled with a completely dull performance by him in general made me dislike Grey completely, and I don't mean the way I was supposed to.

I agree that he was very dull. Surely he must have been told to play it that way, but why?

I think they've got rid of the two weakest characters.

Owen has the strangest mouth - bit fish-like, but asthetics aside, wasn't a very likeable character.

Tosh, was such a drip - had no get-up-and-go in her. Nice boobs though.

Gwen is becoming less likeable now too. I can't sumpathise with her or Owen after their fling. Poor Reece. Again though, nice boobs.

A few of things to think about though:[LIST=1][*]Being buried alive for 1900+ years, and suffocating however many times he would have - would surely have had an effect on Jack's mind? It looked like he'd been dug up and it was straight back to work! You have expected that spending that long re-experiencing an excruciating death over and over would have sent you mad?[*]Also, I find it hard to believe that nuclear power stations would have been built with the ability to vent dangerous materials into control rooms?[*]I'm also getting bored of the homosexual thing. Making the two victorian Torchwood employees lesbians had no bearing on anything. Did it surely?[/LIST]

I'll just interject here - just watched the final two episodes, and thoroughly enjoyed them both. Exit Wounds was perhaps the best piece of television in a long time, and I found it really moving at the end.

Tosh's performance was great, and I feel that Gwen should have gone with Tosh staying. Tosh really seemed to grow as a character this series (along with Owen), and I started to care about both of them. Shame that both have gone, although there is hope that Owen can return I guess. His physiology had already changed, so who knows what effect massive radiation would have on it. Perhaps it could even make him "alive" again in some alien way?

Roll on series 3.

I find the control bit inmcredibly unlikely too. The victorian lesbian thing I found eye rollingly bad as well, they just seem to have added it in for either shock value or to add character. Gwen is the most annoying character now, witless, charmless, gormless.

That was actually complete news to me! So is the Boeshame Peninsula on earth then? I'd always assumed it was elsewhere since I wouldn't have expected anywhere here to look like that.


Gwen having a boyfriend instead of a girlfriend has no bearing on anything either, how come you're not bored of the hetrosexual "thing" as well?


There should be no hope of Owen coming back, it would be a neverending undeadness and we already have one character that can never die.

A lot of people have said Gwen should have gone instead of Tosh. Even if you don't like Gwen's character (I have no preference over either of them) there's more point to her sticking around. She has the vunerable outside life and bridges the gap between Torchwood and normality and she has a more interesting relationship with Jack - Tosh's most interesting relationship was with Owen. It's possible a new recruit might become the new bridge between Torchwood and normal life but we won't be relating to them straight away.

Everyone's assuming we're getting two new replacements because we've lost two people, it doesn't have to be that way. If we do get two I'd rather get one first and the 2nd a few eps later, recruitment should be a gradual process, the original team wasn't hired all at the same time.

I am confused as to why Grey was so dull. I think he was going for the whole quiet psychopath thing, instead he came off as a boring dipstick.

No the Peninsula's not on Earth as far as I know, but mankind has been around a bit by the time Captain Jack comes along...

From "The Doctor Dances"

Excellent! Captain John's my favourite - hope to see more of him in Series 3!

I'm still in shock - how could they do that to Tosh and Owen?!?!?

Unless he comes back alive in an altered (alien) state rather than the undead Owen state.

As I said, his physiology had already been altered, so who knows what effect radiation might have, it might not have the same effect as it would on normal human bodies that are still alive. After all, this is science fiction, and this is the Rift, there is alien technology galore, gloves that bring people back from the dead, .......

Actually that scene suggests there's no pure humans left at all!


If he does that then I hope the rest of the team rolls their eyes and says "oh for f*ck's sake"

I couldn't bring myself to sit through the whole episode of torchwood when the final episode was on, but i fought through the tears (literally) and there were alot of them, i finished watching the show on bbc iplayed about half an hour ago, and im still curled up in a ball sobbing, am i just a snivelling woman, or was the show honestly that heartfelt (and the exit of the fit owen (hehe) and the marvellously played toshiko was horrifying (hopin she will pop up again) maybe in DW *now sitting in hope*

She was just...amazing IMHO.

She died a hero's death, and then the message through the screen, I cried for like 10 minutes!

I loved the episode - I really did. Tosh's death was heart-breaking, and her message at the end even more so.

Somehow I have a hunch that Owen may return. I don't think that "that's it" for him.

I noticed this there seems to be alot of Gwen haters (like you i have no preference) but I think she does bring the sense of normality to the team. Also I think it is just the way the character is written, if there were less stories with her a the center there would be less complaints.

I do think Tosh's relationship with Owen was interesting but I liked how this series she had more to do (like Ianto and Owen) I was crying when she died but I do think that if they would have let her live she would be full of regret and would just have the fact that she couldn't save Owen always on her mind. This would mean that her character would sort of have no potential.

I have searched the forums. My friend missed the show. Previous episodes were on BBC3 and repeated on BBC2 twice. When is this one repeated. I read Tuesday at 7pm but there is something about Diana on then.