As I've already pointed out, I already have experience of looking after small children. Other children - "the children that have not been disciplined" - are not my concern.

It's up to the individual parents to decide what is best for their own children. I am merely stating that I do not agree with the idea of disciplining children by hitting them. I am not imposing my view on anyone.

However, I do find the view that "I smacked my kids, it never did them any harm" to be slightly presumptuous to say the least.

Very lucky parents with very happy children - and we still live in the same area so I see them several times each week.

We didn't need to be smacked as children - my mum just had to whip her head round and give whichever of us was misbehaving *THE LOOK* and you would never hear a peep out of us!

Have to say I was smacked as a child, but *THE LOOK* was far more scarey.

I find it presumptuous of you to say you would not discipline your children when you don't have any !
You have no idea what it is like to have childen all the time 24/7.
A couple of hours here and there really does'nt mean a thing.

If you wish to take personal effrontery over my comments, I'm afraid that is your perogative but it's not my problem.

Kindly do not belittle my time with my nephew and niece. I have only indicated my general feelings regarding the issue. I have made no personal remarks whatsoever - and I am entitled to my opinion regardless of whether I have children or not. I *would* discipline my child if I had one and if they had been "naughty". I would *not* hit them. A very important distinction.

If you comment about my personal experience or my family - "maybe you only see what they want you to see" - once more, I shall report you to the forum moderators.

Children who kick, bite and spit have not been disciplined in the right way - but they may well have been smacked.
There always seems to be this belief that if children are not smacked then they are not disciplined. IMO discipline does not have to be a smack, slap, tap - whatever you want to call it. You can discipline a child with the tone of your voice, withdrawing priviledges etc,. I'm a mother of two children - now teenagers and I'm happy to say I never had to smack either of them - ever. They learned that the word, "No" - at an early age - meant just that. O.K. - it's not easy - you have to work incredibly hard at being a parent, and in no way am I suggesting that I have all the answers. But for me (hit, smacked, slapped, cuffed round the head as a child) - to hit my own children would prove that I'd lost any authority as a parent over them. Hitting a child teaches the child that if you are big you can get what you want with a smack. My kids have - thankfully - grown up happy, healthy, able to stand up for themselves and reason with people rather than resort to wacking them round the head in an argument.

There is also the point that at some time you have to stop smacking, as the children grow too big. At what age do parents decide "you're too big to smack now" - ? When the child reaches puberty are they still smackable? And if by that time the child has only got respect for their parents because otherwise they'll be hit, then I think you're on very shaky ground. Children should be taught the right way to behave in a civilised society, and have respect for themselves, their parents and others - and that respect should be a natural part of accepting responsibility for the way you behave. Forever being punished physically can just lead to resentment and more violence.

To get back on track - Cameron's belief seems to be 'spare the rod and spoil the child' as there was a brief conversation along these lines when Federico was in the house. Maybe he'd do better to remember that cool bloke Jesus talking about 'suffer the little ones to come unto me' - and I don't know the exact quote, but it's along the lines that anyone that hurts one hair of a child's head will have to answer for it at some stage.

Cam as a role model ?????????????????? please.
There are other ways of disciplining a child.

I was disciplined as a child, the so-called gentle smacks, and never thought it had any effect on me. That was until I enrolled on a psychotherapy course. As part of the course I have to undergo therapy myself. It was then that I saw that quite a few of my fears were related to my "forgotten" fear of smacking and the threat of smacking from my mother.

Many people are in favour of gentle smacking, not realising that negative forms of disciplining will often produce negative behaviour and inner fears in later life even when it seems that there is no connection.

The view of smacking being a positive form of discipline is so archaic that we as an evolving human race need to move away from this.


If Cam is a role model and soon to be presenter of Songs of Praise - he will take mankind back to the dark ages with his views.
However it seems inevitable that he will win and I wonder if he will be the first overall winner to be booed. Or maybe BB4 is so boring people just don't care.
There is a sexless, frigid, jealous woman who thinks self pleasure is violation.
There is an angry violent man who displays very anti-social behaviour when drunk.
There is a Christian who thinks kids should be smacked, bitches and has no opnion of his own but lives on advice from an outdated book.
Who else is there??? oh Scott ... and he is ... who exactly

Thanks Jeanie for that very well reasoned post.

You have indicated that you are right and I am wrong.
You have insinuated my children are not happy because they were smacked once.
How you could possibly know about bringing up children is beyone me.
I have children and you do not.
I take it you are not there at your brothers 24 hrs a day so how can you no what goes on.
A mind reader maybe.
Grow up and get a family of your own then you will be able to no what it is like until then you really don't have a clue. You can only think what it might be like.
If you want to report me go ahead.

I have not insinuated anything. That is your interpretation. You are taking comments as a personal slur, when no such thing is intended.

You are overtly trying to belittle my experiences and family however - simply because I do not agree with you. You grow up and separate your emotions from the issue.

Oh the memories are coming flooding back - I learned how to type at the age of 14 at school and my teacher was considerably younger than yours, but she used the ruler too if we as much as glanced at the keyboard 25 years have passed since then!

But yes, losing your temper is the biggest mistake...my daughter is autistic and drives me barmy sometimes but I try the old "separation" trick of telling her to leave the room so I can just calm down and handle it better.

I have smacked her a few times and have been riddled with guilt over it. I moved over to a Star Chart and that has worked wonders fortunately.

The programme on C4 last night about parental discipline stressed the most important thing for me - if you are polite to your child you will elicit a far more positive response than if you scream and shout at them.

[quote]Originally posted by Jeanie
[b]Children who kick, bite and spit have not been disciplined in the right way - but they may well have been smacked.
There always seems to be this belief that if children are not smacked then they are not disciplined. IMO discipline does not have to be a smack, slap, tap - whatever you want to call it. You can discipline a child with the tone of your voice, withdrawing priviledges etc,. I'm a mother of two children - now teenagers and I'm happy to say I never had to smack either of them - ever.

Again each person and thefore child is different - you can't assume that if they are smacked they are disciplined and if they are not smacked they are unruly. Some will respond to it and some wont, same way that some will respond to other methods and some wont - no right or wrong, but parents should be trusted to know what is right for their children and not be thought of as a bad parent if they do choose to smack their children

To right ben4321 - not getting involved in this but Lyn I think you are really out ofbline to suggest that not having kids means that you cannot have a valid opnion on the any subject to do with kids.
Besides your e-mails show you are really mixing up personal emotions in the issue. Never a good sign for holding a sensible argument. (Otherwise good debate)

Exactly. I would imagine that there are many paediatricians, child psychologists and nursery workers who do not themselves have children. Does this automatically invalidate their professional skills?

Just because Ben has no children it dosn't mean he knows nothing about bringing up a child and you don't need to be a parent to know how to treat children. He was a child himself and has learned from experience from his own parents and the cycle it has produced within his family. Outsiders can also see better where parents can go wrong because they are detatched.

Well said.....I was smacked as a child and it made me think of my father as the bearer of punishment, he always made me afraid, I swore I would never hit my children.

When I had my first child I did use small slaps as punishment, but when I noticed that when I had a second child the first used the same form of punishment to chastise his sibling when they did wrong, I knew that was the time to stop. There are many ways to punish a child and physical violence is not the answer, the most effective method is depriving them of something they want, or making them go and sit on their own, and not allowed to rejoin whatever is going on until their behaviour is acceptable. I teach in a kindergarten with 24 3/4yr olds and this is the only method available and it does work, children are pleasers, they really want you to like them.

smacking is barbaric, and the majority of smacking comes when parents have had a bad day, and are at the end of their tether, it is done in anger and to releive that anger, and can therefore get out of control, I think you would find that most parents who smack immediately feel great remorse for having done so.

This is a very emotive subject and I'd ask that people treat it sensitively. To tell any loving parent that what they are doing or have done with their children is wrong and harmful has to to be one of the most painful things you could say. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but needs to be careful to be respectful in the expressing of it.

~ Beth.

I'm not a Cam fan at all, but I think he is right in saying that the threat of a smack is ineffective if kids know that it won't ever happen.

I wasn't smacked as a child and have always considered myself to have good self discipline, generally instilled in me by my parents, older sister and other adults I came into contact with as a child. However, it was all such a long time ago, I don't really remember how or why the non-smacking approach worked for me and my siblings!

I think my lack of naughtiness as a child probably had a lot more to do with having an unhealthy dose of lead via petrol as I was growing up - made me too dopey to misbehave? Kids seem rowdier and more demanding these days and I'm sure that's cos they're not getting enough lead into their systems...

A light smack on the bum can be quite enjoyable occasionally ... Cam tried it out on Steph and she liked it, so he knows it works.

In fairness to Lyn, I think she is quite justifiably pointing out that spending quality time with your neices and nephews (who I am sure are the well-behaved, well-adjusted kids you say) is very different from being the parent of a lively, inquisitive, stubborn, toddler unaware of the dangers that surround us. Try this 24/7 and your may find a sharp smack on a hand going into the electical socket for the Nth time and the memory of that sting will cure the problem forever (and yes I did have plug covers in my own home, but this happened elsewhere.)

Beth has already indicated that the thread has strayed somewhat off-topic enough already so that's it from me anyway.

Thats just what I do to my wife.. a short sharp one.. soon brings her to heel

My own personal view is anti-smacking, but I have several friends who do use taps/small amounts of physical punishment and I have no problems with them making that choice.
Working with children with behaviour problems [and being a parent] means I have worked with children from all backgrounds and the thing which I have found more problematic is the mental abuse and neglect [letting children run riot] rather than some smacking when small. I do feel once the children are at school smacking loses it's threat effect for many.
I do think your views do change once you have children 24/7 and some children are more challenging than others. Behaviour problems like ADHD lived with round the clock wear people down and I can quite see the desire to try all options to see if anything will work.
I have no problem with people stating views without children, but do know my beliefs have been severely challenged as a parent. No matter how much time you spend with children the only way you can truly know is by being a parent.

O.K enough.
We all have our own opinions .
We also have our own experiences.
It is very different when you have children 24 hrs a day every day.
Not even parents do that anymore.
My views about children have changed a lot over the years . All I am trying to say is nothing is set in stone and it hard to comment until you've lived it.
Every child is different but I feel as adults it is our duty to discipline the best way we can to get them ready for the world .So they can be become 'good people'.
I will say although bringing up my children was the hardest job I have ever had it was the best and I would never have missed it for the world.
I love them with all my heart and do get upset when questioned about not being a good mother.
If I have upset anyone I do opoligize.