That's +860k which is identical to the timeshift that Cold War saw on the sunday.

Assuming the timeshift is analagous to Cold War's for the duration of the week that regretfully means that we'll probably see a sub 7 million final for hide - it's a shame because it was the best episode of this half of the season so far.

So the chain may well be broken. Shame At least the record was broken first.

It seems to happen a lot that some of the very best episodes get less viewers than the more average episodes. It is a shame if the best episodes don't get watched by the most people.

I often think that the weather gets used as an excuse too often when it comes to explaining programme ratings, but I have to say that on Saturday the improvement in the weather was quite dramatic and sudden and therefore probably did have a big effect.

I don't know, but sometimes when ratings fall it may have something to do with how the previous episode was perceived. In this particular case I don't know if this would have had any bearing on events or not.

Don't forget its also the first story to go up against BGT, and it might get more viewers on-demand during the week as a result (especially with the good word-of-mouth the episode's getting). I'd still predict something 7m+.

A very good point. That is why I didn't respond to the OP of the thread (now merged with the ratings thread). I responded specifically , and quoted, a post from a long time member who posted something silly.

The op seemed ok. Anyone (especially newbies) can glance at overnights and start worrying. Fair enough. They did, at least, state things as questions for discussion.

Firstly thanks for those who thought my back, i am new to the forums so cut me some slack while i get the hang of things, i didnt know how to work things out properly like make separate threads, i just wanted to get everything on one plate to get of my chest and save time making singled threads. but either way i will still have one guy dissing me. I am right about Hides ratings whoever said i was wrong i read it on digital spys overnight ratings it was just under 5 million.

Of course i made it look like my own opinion on my own thread but you know i am a big fan and i do worry and feel concerned when expectations go wrong in the sense of ratings, storylines and the pointless cuts of the episodes when i would rather 13 episodes to run through the year like it should be.

When i mean Doctor who getting childish, i mean which im sure people would agree is that lately the man himself seems to get down with the kids and talk like a 12 year old and act hyperactive, Matt was more calmer on Series 5 i think. Im not saying the storys itself is childish cause Hide was scary but its the character himself im aiming at.

thanks again! just remember im not criticizer the show i love it! if i wanted to make hate posts ill create a hate itvs singing competitions thread!

Hide had an Appreciation Index, or AI score, of 85.

Sorry for being dim but what is an AI Score?? is that good or bad?

That's fine, but let's see where the final ratings take us eh? Cold War started with 5.3million IIRC and finished with 7.34 so hopefully Hide will do the same

As for that last sentence, I sympathise...completely

It's an Appreciation Index score -- how satisfied the sample audience were with the episode, out of 100. So in this case, 85%. A very good score

Cold War started with 5.7.

fair enough. My point stands though

I think people are a little sensitive over ratings at the moment anyway as whilst they are generally stable a well known tabloid ran a story comparing the overnights to final ratings (someone correct me if I'm wrong) And with the good weather overnight ratings are always generally lower as people use on demand services these days, whereas in days gone by they'd video it and that would count in the overnights, and stay in the pub!

Not quite, it's up by 0.878, slightly higher. I think when it gets to Wednesday we can predict more accurately what it's final rating could be. It was still a nice day on Sunday, so people might be more inclined to time shift in the week, for example.

eta: i'm assuming that your figure was based on the rounded up figure rather than the .98 actual figure?

Well actually you said 4.7 of 4.9 neither of which is precisely correct. It actually was 5 million bar 20k viewers, hence why it was rounded up to 5 million. You also said that it averaged only 5 million last week, which was incorrect because last week had overnights of 5.73 million.

You went on to say that series 7b ratings aren't doing well when it's in line with past series, claimed that it was averaging over 9 million in 2008, which it wasn't and that the xmas special that year got 14 million when it was 13.10 million.

Obviously theres no expectation that you be an expert on ratings to comment at all, but you did present your post in such a way as to indicate you were presenting factual information rather than just guesstimates.

The ratings thread was also on the front page of the forum when you started this thread and had you glanced over it it would have addressed many of the issues you raised around ratings quite quickly.

However I was probably a bit sharp but I was responding to your post as I was going out of the door this morning, so sorry about that

Anyway, as a general point of interest, outside of specials, the only episodes of Doctor Who to average over 9 million in the ratings are:

Rose (10.81) and The Eleventh Hour (10.08) - obviously boosted by the "New Doctor" effect.

Journey's End (10.57) - a masterclass in generating organic word of mouth promotion due to the fake regeneration in the prior episode.

Tooth and Claw (9.24) and Rise of the Cybermen (9.22) - both boosted by a massive post football audience

and Partners in Crime (9.14) and The Fires of Pompeii (9.04) - cracking promotion for the start of series 4 (though worth noting that for all it started and ended amazingly well, hence it being the highest rated series it still had one of the lowest rated episodes in the mix - The Poison Sky (6.53) which lead to much concern at the time!)

AI averages from all 7 series so far.


(Thanks to soily at Gallifrey Base.)

For the sake of accuracy, the AI derives from the scores given by a large panel of viewers assembled by GfK NOP on behalf of the BBC.

Panellists are asked to give marks out of ten on any programmes they have seen, live or via on-the-day timeshift, on the four main BBC channels, ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5, Sky One, and a few others (can't remember them all to name them right now), that were broadcast the previous day. Marks are given online, and weighted by GfK NOP to be representative of the TV Audience.

The averages of the scores of all panellists are then multiplied by ten to give an AI score. So panellists rated 'Hide' an average of 8.5/10, making an AI of 85.

Though it's often done, the score is not given as a percentage , just a number.

Generally the scores are for internal use (so the BBC has more to go on than just ratings or shares).

As well as the overnight AIs, scores can also be collected over a week. The BBC's own research says that those who timeshift tend to give higher scores (reflecting research that says regular timeshifters tend to be more committed, plus the lower number of casual viewers reflected in timeshift figures).

As a rough rule of thumb, 85 marks the border for 'excellent', though for a show like Doctor Who the scores probably reflect a general appreciation for the show as well as individual episodes.

The overnight figure for 'Hide' is 5 million. This is not remotely a cause for worry, because the overnights are not the ratings, they are only the first part of the ratings.

'Cold War' got 5.7m on overnights, but its actual full ratings were 7.37m. Likewise 'Hide' will end up with ratings significantly higher than 5m.

So the ratings this series are doing just fine, at about the same level as the previous six series.

Part of your worries are caused by having exaggerated ideas of how earlier series did. You say that in 2008 the ratings were 9m, well, some did get that high. Two broke 9million, and one got as high as 10.57m. Those are all final ratings, not overnights, however. Nor are they typical of that series, which averaged 8.05m per Episode, while Series Seven currently averages 7.88m.

So not so worrying. In fact we've just had the longest run of episodes (up to and including 'Cold War') scoring over 7m (eleven episodes in a row).

Try and remember, too, that ratings always go up and down over a series. That 2008 series you refer to had a low point of 6.27m, and a high point of 10.57m. All final ratings. That's a range of 4.3 million viewers!

So far Series Seven has ranged between 7.37m and 8.44m, a range of just 1.08m. If 'Hide' ends up with ratings of 6.7m (probably the lowest it could get), that will still be only a range of 1.74m. Remarkably stable ratings. And to give you an idea how little 6.7m would be to worry about, Series Two had three episodes rate lower, Series Three had two, as did Series Four and Five, while Series Six had two rate just over that.

You've done poor Colin and Sylvester down too. While ratings weren't great for them at the time, they never quite got as bad as 3m. And that was a very different time for TV.

So don't be frightened, or worried. We aren't seeing any ratings collapses, or disastrous trends, just a series doing rather well over all, and about normal at its worst.

Also worth remembering that Who's viewing figures during the Peter Davison era were higher partly because of its new scheduling - two episodes per week, early evening, mid-week. John Nathan-Turner always said a return to Saturday tea-time would bring the viewers down and that's what happened with Colin Baker's first season.

With McCoy, it was back to mid-week but this time scheduled as a direct clash with ratings monster Coronation Street. Even so, Who was still bringing in 5m viewers.

However, ratings were far less sophisticated 25 years ago. JNT always believed that, in split households, Coronation Street would have been watched 'live' and Doctor Who video recorded (ah, those were the days!) and watched later. Unfortunately, those video viewings didn't count toward the viewing figures.

Could'nt have put it better myself!!! Sanity reigns!!!! Absolutely nothing to worry about in terms of ratings. For a BBC Drama Series now in its 7th Series and its 8th year to still be averaging 8m accross the entire run of 7 Series is a huge and significant achievement, very few Drama Series have done this or can achieve this. We should be proud and delighted that going into Doctor Who's 50th Year, the show we all love (well most of us) is still in such good health!!!!

Hide Update: 6.045m

Will definitely struggle to reach 7m now.

Might struggle to get to 6.5m you reckon Yog? Also can you post the latest ratings for The Voice and BGT in the ratings thread please.

Oh dear. Journey to the centre of the TARDIS might have had a chance of boosting the overnights if the BBC could be bothered to trail it. Obviously doctor who isn't as important as the voice - which premiered with identical ratings to DW but has since been trailed and promoted endlessly by the BBC and has thus overtaken it.

And don't forget the entire Saturday evening schedule has been changed to protect The Voice from a BGT clash.

That post-BGT slot would have been perfect for doctor who (especially for hide), interestingly enough. If these low overnight ratings are used as justification to cut down on DW's episode output next year... I just don't know what to say. It's like they're deliberately sabotaging the show or they're just clueless.