You can immaturely put words into my mouth all you like, your whole argument still falls flat under even the slightest scrutiny.

One low overnight with a fairly average time shift (Hide) followed by another low overnight (Journey) doesn't mean the sky is falling in. Unless of course the show was cancelled after Hungry Earth and The Lodger got those overnights in the 4 millions in Series 5 and I've just been dreaming since then...

See above.

My argument is as it always was, that you are ignoring a large percentage of the audience that do not watch it on the day that it was broadcast because for whatever reason you cannot conceive of the idea that people TV viewing habits have changed. You are purposefully distorting the facts to suit your own agenda.

I'm not ignoring the officials, I'm just refusing to ignore the overnights.

I am wondering if some people on here have learnt basic statistics in their education. Do not rely on one statistical measure only.The BBC will use a wide range of measures to determine whether Doctor Who should be allowed to continue and to see whether Doctor Who is becoming more popular worldwide.

I don't think anyone's seriously suggesting that Doctor Who is in danger of cancellation in the near (relatively speaking) future.

I pay no attention to these 'statistics'.....besides all these numbers we are given - let's face it, DOCTOR WHO is dropping in viewers. People are not enjoying it as much!
Personally, as a VERY long-term viewer, I wouldn't give a hoot if I missed an episode at the moment. It is all too "samey" (is that a word?) and too much SONIC!! Sorry. But that is the way I feel.

Yep lets all ignore the FACTS that tell us that Doctor Who isn't dropping in viewers and pretend that it is to suit our own personal opinions.

I do think some people are struggling to get into the series however which might be why the overnights are lower.

I hope they go back to the original format after this.

Yes but you're just one person. Many others feel the same way no doubt, but many DON'T and the whole point of this thread is that the FACTS about viewing figures, back that up. Unless you want to argue that around the same number of viewers who watched it in the past because they liked it, are now watching because they don't!

So I don't count as a viewer then

Officially, no.

I thought that Officially I did, but it was only by your definition that, because I only watched it on the iplayer, I don't count as a viewer..

You don't by either.

So I don't count in the official BBC iplayer stats? Even though I watch via the iplayer?

That doesn't make sense. Please state your source

I think all TV shows need axing then! If the show can finish third with this kind of viewing figure then all the shows beneath it need cancelling, and the two above it are clearly fluking it too. Let's end this tellybox nonsense and go back to our tradition of oral storytelling.

Speaking as someone who is forced by necessity to watch all Who episodes on iPlayer, it annoys me that our views aren't taken seriously. I appreciate that not all the people who watch Who on iPlayer will watch it in full but to suggest that less than half the people who successfully download it don't watch it is pushing the limits of believability.

To paraphrase Ripley from Aliens 'Did some people's IQ's just drop sharply?' 4.9 million on the over nights thrid most watched show on saturday night 26. something audience share? Won its time slot beatn only by the reality TV beasts? Clearly this is a show in decline. I'm coming round to a school of thought that suggests people are more concerned about the rating because they arent what they were uttelry missing the point about how viewing habits have changed.

Couple of iPlayer points:

1) The figures we tend to see are for requests. BBC data suggests that to get a rough idea of how many actual viewers that equates to, take 60% as your estimate.

2) iPlayer views via a TV (whether via Sky or Virgin box, or by attaching a tablet or laptop) are counted in the official ratings from BARB. Views not via TV, i.e. on a tablet screen are not. Yet.

Some short thoughts on ratings:

1) Overnights do matter. There is little doubt that being pushed against BGT and some decent weather after a lengthy winter is going to deplete the overnights, and not all will be made up on timeshift (casual, 'because it was on', viewers don't tend to timeshift).

2) Overnights don't matter more than timeshift and VoD viewers. They all watch, they all count.

3) Overnights do not tell you about 'appointment to view' figures. They are a mix of live and early timeshift viewers. A substantial percentage of the overnights are not live viewers sitting down to watch appointment TV.

4) We really shouldn't be concerned about the shift from overnight viewing to later viewing, when the consolidated ratings have shown it's not harmed the viewership levels.

5) We should recognise this though - the majority of all the casual viewers come from live overnights. The majority of timeshifters are people with an express interest in seeing the show. Research tells us that timeshifters tend to be keener, watch more, and stay more loyal, than live viewers. They also give higher appreciation scores. That seems more valuable than 'appointment to view', in an age where that is starting to matter less even for talent shows.

Yes, I believe that it's audience share on the night was 26%.
I think that's on the right side of good isn't it?

You do count, that's why the BBC has introduced Live +7


http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pre...24/live7.shtml

Only if your telly is hooked up to a BARB recording box, surely?

Anyway, does anyone know the AI Journey got?

Absolutely. This is also why people who watch via iPlayer can be 100% sure that the BBC are counting them. Just because BARB and overnights or whatever don't include it all, Live+7 means the important people at the BBC know all about it.

Same with AI - the BBC do use that, but also use other techniques to judge reception.

Dr Thete is right - Overnights are important. But they are differently important than a few years ago and it isn't as simple as saying that sub five million overnights indicates a decline for the show.