The way BARB gather information from a relatively small number of households is a remarkably accurate way of estimating viewing figures across the UK.

In any case, people using iPlayer can rest easy that Live+7 means their viewing will count where it matters - within the BBC

Thank you for some more excellent points and insights. I think the major debate concerns number 4. Some refuse to accept this when it's just common sense. That's what I mean when I say those that insist ratings are falling, only do so to back up a subjective agenda.

If this further fall in overnights proved to be concomitant with an increase in those catching up on the show then it'd be fine - but that isn't the case - timeshift viewers have become less populous as well, as is evident by the final ratings for Cold War and Hide and the inevitable final ratings for journey to the centre of the TARDIS (and every other episode this series unless the BBC start pushing the show)

Nope. We don't know the Live+7 figures so don't really know. I remember a similar panic midway through series 5, I think. Or six. Matters not - the outcome turned out to be the same. Doctor Who as popular as ever.

We might be seeing a problem brewing, but it is too early to tell and past experience should calm us.

In some ways I'm surprised. I might have expected the annoying lack of episodes, irregular schedule and bad PR to have made a difference. But seemingly not.

Don't get me wrong - neither have these things resulted in a surge of Broadchurch or Downton or Midwives style popularity. But let's check back on those show after eight years.

I don't think the BBC has ever run trailers for every episode in a series has it? I expect we won't get another trailer until the last episode now. Instead I'm seeing them running trailers to catch up on the series so far on iPlayer.

The falls in both overnights and catch up are not out of line with previous series (as backed by factual evidence earlier in this thread), so why should anyone panic now?

Is deliberately misinterpreting what those who question them say the only defense you all have left for these overnights?

You do not count in the official independent ratings (overnight or consolidated) issued by BARB, the only ones recognised externally (the BBC can and probably do internally count whatever distorted and inaccurate figures they like).

But lots of people have acknowledged directly what you say about BARB and overnights etc. And have also accurately described how the BBC use supplemental information, such as Live+7 to give themselves even better information on which to base decisions.

They do not do this to deceive themselves about the popularity of shows. They're not Doctor Who fans! They do it because they need the best information possible.

I don't think you can back up the claim that it is distorted and inaccurate.

Also - a couple of posters have directly acknowledged that overnights are important.

I wasn't talking about overnights, I was responding to your comments about iplayer viewers

My comments on iplayer viewers were on whether they should be included in the overnights.

I'm not worried about the BBC's opinion of the overnights or the decisions they do or don't make based on them, I've already made clear I'm not suggesting the show's going to be axed.

Whatever their reasons for internally counting them and releasing them, my original point is that they're not valid, and don't back up the argument against the importance of overnights.

I already have, a request does not a equal a watch and overall request figures do not take into account the same people making more than one of them for the same episode or people requesting them who've already seen them live.

And many have used the officials to undermine their importance, my argument is with them, not those who haven't.

double post

Some iplayer viewing is counted in the overnights. Some is not. All of it is accurately assessed by the BBC one way or another.

What is the overriding importance here? As fans we want the BBC to make Doctor Who. Correct? So we are reassured that not only do they treat overnights and final figures from BARB as important, but they also use Live+7. And hopefully recognise the clear fact that Doctor Who is watched by about as many people now as since 2005.

So. What is the business about overnight figures? What do you think it actually means?

I think we had a few low overnights in 2010, yet here we are in 2013 with the show still planning to enter production for 2014 episodes.

Live+7 does not count each request to view as a new unique viewer though. It uses statistically valid methods to determine from the iPlayer viewing how much of it is people viewing the whole episode and for the first time. Not repeat viewers.

The 2.2m figure posted above and the other figures in the source PDF are request figures, not Live+7, it is those I'm disputing the validity of.

Not valid? Why not valid?

People watching are people watching. What difference what they're watching on?

Overnights are less important these days because viewing habits have changed. It's less important to watch on the day of broadcast because it is becoming increasingly easier to watch on other days in other ways.

It might matter to channels that need the advertising revenue and don't like the way time shifters can skip adverts but that doesn't apply to the BBC.

I almost never watch TV live now. Haven't ever since I got Sky+ many years ago.

For the reasons I've stated a dozen times. I'm all for the Live+7 (i.e. the amount of people who watched the whole episode on there) being officially counted (in the consolidates, if independently curated and verified, and the same is done for the ratings of all other channels with catchup services) but the 2.2m request figure someone tried to use to bump up the figures 2 million with yesterday is just the amount of times some of the episode was streamed, it is not the amount of unique viewers who watched the whole thing on there for the first time.

Apologies I think I got the request figures and Live+7 figures muddled up yesterday. Err, I think...

Yes. Correct. The 2.2m stream requests figure is nice and fun. But is not used by BARB or the BBC for official viewing figures.

We were crossing our meanings a bit I think.

So...with that sorted. What do the current overnight figures tell us, do you think?

That Moff Who, for the causal viewers who make up the majority of the audience, is not the appointment to view television that RTD Who was. See my original few posts before those trying to ignore them employed their diversion tactics.

Don't blame yourself. Blame Moffat! . It was him who shouted about the stream request figures as if they were official viewers. Which was fair enough - he was countering the bullshit of Sun journalists with all that he had available at the time.

Live+7 is the future..

And the AI for 'Journey to the centre of the Tardis' is....

85

I don't mean to question the validity of the AI ratings. I am sure they mean more to those in the know but I do find it peculiar that something such as Dad's Army can get an AI rating of 88.

It's a great comedy, don't get me wrong, but it's so old. If showing a repeat that's as old as the hills can achieve such a high AI figure then I don't know what conclusions you can draw from them. Sorry, just my opinion...

Squarely under the heading of 'not exactly great but not worth loosing sleep over', right?

I thought figures in the 80s were still excellent?