I'm afraid I've had the same experience. This poster never directly engages with posters that disagree with her pre-determined position: i.e. that Twelve is a miserable sod, it's paper-thin characterisation, and poor writing. It's almost like a cut and paste from the same material, from one post to the next.

To be honest, I don't think we'll ever see a ratings 'hike' again, or at least, not one which lasts beyond an episode or two. The audience is more sophisticated and diverse than it was 30-40 years ago and there is far more competition and viewing choice out there. We're also in unparalleled territory, in that very few dramas - sci-fi or otherwise - last the nine years that Doctor Who has. To the casual viewer, it doesn't really matter who the showrunner is; they probably haven't heard of Steven Moffat. To them, it's simply 'Doctor Who' - that long-running sci-fi show that started back in the 1960's. You're not going to get several million extra people tuning in just because there's a change in direction or production. However, to more or less maintain the same viewing figures across nine years, despite all the competition, is - to quote the 9th Doctor - absolutely fantastic!

Said before on this forum, Who didn't manage such relative consistency between 1963 and, say, 1972 and was nearly cancelled in 1969. Whilst we're talking Apples and Oranges to a degree, I would say....yep, it is fantastic!

And I only knew the difference between, say, Mr Hinchcliffe and Mr Williams in retrospect when I got older and embraced my geekiness so know where you're coming from. Certain eras float your boat more than others and quite right too, but ratings wise? I'm genuinely rather proud that it's been doing so well for approaching a decade in C21.

Unfortunately for some people here, 'engage' means arguing and quite frankly I'm REALLY not that interested in that. So I'm afraid I will continue to have my opinion (including that ep 8 was a significant improvement ) and if my not replying to you bugs you so, feel free to use the block button with no hard feelings. Then you won't see my posts to feel so aggrieved (I learnt the value of that button long ago!).

LIVE + VOSDAL: 5.082m
+ Day 1: 6.217m
+ Day 2: 6.509m
+ Day 3: 6.669m

Looks on course to deliver 7m+

LIVE + VOSDAL: 5.082m
+ Day 1: 6.217m
+ Day 2: 6.509m
+ Day 3: 6.669m
+ Day 4: 6.756m

Thanks Yog101

I'll be surprised if we don't go over 7m now.

Serious question, not starting an argument, if you had seen that dream like scene with Capaldi and Jenna after the train exploded much earlier in the series, do you think it would/could have change your view on the way Twelve interacts with people?

To an extent, yes. I think that was a great scene and there needs to be more like it. It really doesn't work for me as regards actually giving a flying monkeys about 12 as a character if most of the time he's given so little depth. As I said, he felt so much like a clever idea rather than a rounded being before. It was definitely the first episode where he's started to feel rounded and I liked him more in the episode because of it, yes. The next ep is apparently very good for the character stuff too and this does make me think that maybe this writer is significantly better at characterisation than the others are. I do hope though that it's something that others continue after him.

Very poor numbers compared to series 4.

Capaldi is causing viewers to switch off in their droves.

Another fine contribution from another known troll. At least try and change your routine. Do you think anyone's actually listening as opposed to pointing and laughing?

Remember that laughable thread you started before the season had even started in which you lied and said reviews had been bad and then when asked to offer proof you blamed the forum for being full of fanboys? Because I do. Zzzzzzzzzzz

I know where to come for a weather report

I see. I think the scene worked so much better because Clara (representing the viewer) had suffered the new callous doc for so long and recently lost her patience with him once he pushed her too far. Indeed, "Would that make you feel better if you think that way of me" (sorry if I've got the quote slightly wrong) came out of the doctor because he does care about Clara, doesnt want her to leave, is so so so sad about it but struggles to express. You can see how much she means to him by his totally super happy face when she decides to stay in the end. I.e. at the end of her conversation with Danny, when he heard her tell Danny she loved him, the Doctor was totally anticipating her coming down the stairs and say farewell, thanks for the last hurrah, we are done

Anyway, my point being this level of emotion and characterisation and rich layers in the doctor needed time to be peeled away rather than revealed straight after regeneration. I just think they felt many episodes were needed before letting Capaldi open up a bit. Via Clara, we first empaphised and experienced a totally shocking new physical appearance, followed by a period of needing to be convinced that this is still the same doctor, followed by, eh actually he's rather mean - where is all this coldness coming from he is really really mean, followed by omg he's such a prat, I thought he was my friend, followed by wow I think I've got him all wrong - he just has such a huge burden of care on his shoulders - galactic saving burden, in his heart he is good but just doesn't show it the same way we would, we really were wrong about him after all ...... If they revealed that complexity of character that Clara experienced (on our behalf) in just 1-2 episodes, we would probably be complaining how amateur and rushed the reveal of was. This is the Colin Baker progression done much better (and I was a Baker fan), and actually Clara had been representing the voice of the casual viewer all along.



just my opinion ofcourse , cliche as that phrase is on the forum nowadays!


Apologies for hijacking the ratings thread peeps.


p.s. I wrote this late and using a tablet, apologies for the typos ....

Just to continue the hijack - I think Judge has nailed it. One statement which is in the spoiler thread from before the series began describes 12's series arc as 6-done-right.

It is an arc. We know it's an arc. There are twists and turns and developments... and it continues, this week.


Moffat will probably get less credit than he deserves for said arc, as his name isn't on the title card. Even-though Mathieson has stated that it's SM at work. I look forward to seeing how it all plays out. Anyhow, back to the ratings.

LIVE + VOSDAL: 5.082m
+ Day 1: 6.217m
+ Day 2: 6.509m
+ Day 3: 6.669m
+ Day 4: 6.756m
+ Day 5: 6.863m

Also worth adding that the timeadjustment should actually add around +85k not the -5k I stated the other day. Which is nice.

Lovely post. I wholeheartedly agree. Personally I don't mind waiting to see what this Doctor is about. Capaldi has the acting ability to convey all of that emotion without actually saying it, you can see it all in his face. He may be closed, but that's not surprising after 2000 years of losses. You get beautiful gleaming moments from him, it's so worth the occasional (and to be honest, totally justified) callous comments. I love him!

Superb! Looks certain to hit 7m thanks Yog!

Judging by how well Mummy was received, hopefully Flatline will get a boost as well

Good numbers... As long as we get over 5m in the overnights we should hit over 7m all the way till the end of the series!

Every series in Nu-Who has poor numbers compared to series 4 using your logical failsafe ratings formula!

Totally agreed with both of you. Moffat's Doctor Who is not for people with a short-attention span and a short-term attitude who aren't willing to invest in it over a whole series. It's a very thoughtful story-arc and a characterisation arc and I think viewed at the end of the series, it will be extremely satisfying.

Looks like ratings for Mummy On The Orient Express are going to just about hit 7 million, which is good news.

...and Series 4 has two of the lowest ratings in the whole of the revival! It's almost like there are other factors in play.

Surprised the time adjustment is going up!

*Derails thread some more*

I do agree with you to a certain extent. Certainly that his arse nature makes Clara's reactions more believable. I think the issue is 12 has been all one note and NOW they're trying to peel away the layers and it feels a bit ham-fisted to me. Or a bit late. A more subtle ongoing reveal of his character would have worked MUCH better where they weaved in bits of the depth through it rather than waiting until episode 8 to properly explore. DW has been fairly rubbish with subtly and character arcs in the past few years though - they have a terrible tendency to do the equivalent of info dump rather than weave it throughout. Probably the result of the show runner not giving the individual writers enough of an idea as to how he should be gradually showing what was going on inside. For all people's talk of 'you need a better attention span', that isn't true; you really don't in order to follow 12s character in the first part of this series because there's been nothing much to learn about him until now.

I think it's a very tricky balancing act because whilst 12s character arc might eventually turn out to be interesting his 7 first episodes have been a bit nothingy and I can see why he's not grown on some of the audience (not all, but certainly enough to comment on). You do run that risk when you create less endearing characters and you need to do more work to make the audience root for them - I don't think they've shown the writing skill to achieve that. It's certainly not that I dislike him but I have no attachment to him. If PC had left at the end of the series I wouldn't have cared. So, for me, clearly this character has lacked something.

As far as I can see, that is exactly what they've done throughout this series. I'm struggling to see how you can think an episode like 'The Caretaker' was devoid of character development. It was practically nothing but!

Great post by The Judge earlier by the way - absolutely spot on.

Deleted. Can't be bothered.

Capaldi gets four Top 10s in a row!


Nice reminder from DWM