I can see series 4 averaging better than series 1. The timeshifts for DW ratings this series have been astonishing!

It's definitely going to be touch and go. If I included the Xmas specials in it definitely would, but I personally find that the ratings for those tend to destort the picture which is why I haven't included them...

But yeah, fours years in to the reboot the show has never been in better health - amazing viewing figures, record breaking audience appreciation, and the media in general love the show. It puts some of the more negative threads out there in to context for sure....

whilst I welcome the ratings, I also welcome honest and open debate, whether that be positive or constructive criticism about the series. it may well be doing well but that should not stiffle criticism and nor should it be dismissed.

Who's dismissing it? I'm talking about putting in to it's appropriate context, which is a completely different kettle of fish. Bit over sensitive today, BG...

I wasn't having a pop at you Muttley. I was just making a statement more than anything.

I think you two have raised an important issue though. Is there a balance on this forum between people expressing negative views, whilst accepting that the show - in its current format - is actually a huge success?

how could anyone dispute that has been a success given that is has returned year on year. what I find difficult is when people dismiss others when they do criticise the series with well you must be in the wrong as it got this figure and this AI. there is no right or wrong..people have their own personal opinions and views which they are more than entitled to irrespective of ratings etc.

I guess I see the other side of it BG - people saying how rubbish the show is, and at no point giving credit to its popularity beyond this forum.

they are saying in their opinion that some episodes are rubbish not all

I refer my learned friends to a post I made earlier on another thread..........

Very few people say the show is rubbish, and continue to watch it. Those that do are idiots, or more likely trolling.

There is, however, a perception that those who think a story or episode is rubbish hold this view for every episode. This is almost always untrue, and is a very frustrating position to be in - as I and several others have been.

Personally, I think the show has had some staggeringly awful episodes, and I'm not afraid to say so. It has also had some eps so good they have put me in a good mood well into the following Monday.

I don't understand the idea that anyone much resents the success (although some are surprised by it). I'm thrilled that it's stayed so popular long enough to get a quality showrunner in 2010.

perhaps because as individuals some things will work for them, whilst others don't. the same way that same way some episodes appeal more to some but not to others and vice versa. for example I liked Midnight as a story whereas I know from posts on here and amongst friends it didn't work for them. swings and roundabouts Dave.

This has got nothing to do with the New Series.

This is something that is just inherent in the way that fandom views things.

For as long as I've followed Doctor Who, I cannot think of a single point in the show's history that was (pretty much) universally praised by fans at time of transmission.

When Hinchcliffe aired, fans longed for Pertwee and UNIT to come back; when Williams aired, it was all far too silly; when JNT aired, well, you know the story there; under RTD, why! he's *ruined* Doctor Who!

Of course, the New Series is going to come under the same level of scrutiny.

Doctor Who has a rich and diverse background, with many eras each having a distinct style of their own. Each of those eras will have their fans, and a number of those fans will be fairly narrow in their viewpoints, and won't except a vision of Who that doesn't reflect their era of choice.

Every story in Who is flawed in some way, has things that maybe could have been better, has performances that maybe didn't cut the mustard, or maybe some humour that jarred, concepts that didn't quite add up, cringeworthy dialogue or production value shortcomings.

For those that like the 'feel' of the show, those things will be brushed aside as not being sufficient to taint overall enjoyment; for those that don't, they'll be seen as *proof* that the show isn't as good as it used to be.

And the cycle repeats...producers come and go, fandom moans and moans and moans, each fan with their own good reason for doing so.

I concluded that the only thing that really matters is how the show performs in the ratings, how its received by folk who aren't 'fans' like we are. As that's the only thing that will guarantee future production, the only real truth in this quagmire of opinion.

Thankfully, we're in good health at the moment, and the show's future is safe.

Of course, as we start to move away from RTD, nudging ever closer to the era of the Moff, fans will already be re-calibrating their rifles with a new quarry firmly in sight.

Just let them - it really doesn't matter one jot.

Regards,

Cypher

out of curiousity where do you place yourself?

Simple - I just sit back and enjoy each new episode as it comes.

Regards,

Cypher

and if you don't enjoy it..?

I don't think there has been an episode in recent years that I haven't enjoyed on any level.

But, if and when that happens, I'll take comfort knowing that there will be another one on before long.

Regards,

Cypher

I think we can all cherry pick certain things out of an episode that we liked...for example Julian Bleach as Davros..but a few good scenes does not always make a stunning episode.

I do take your point that whilst one might not work on one level there will be another that does.

For me, an episode doesn't have to be stunning, just enjoyable.

That's all I'm looking for.

The worst WHO in my opinion is that which is dull and boring, hence my dislike of mid-late Pertwee. I find them a real struggle, especially the six-parters. I've yet to succeed watching 'Colony In Space' from beginning to end without falling asleep, and I've tried many times.

If Who became like that again, yeah, maybe I'd concede that it's no longer for me, and stop watching. It *really* would have to be frightfully dull and plodding, tho'.

Regards,

Cypher

I don't see people who criticise the series as moaners, whinging just for the sake of it, unless of course they cannot back up why it didn't work for them. Nor do I think it makes them any less of a fan who praises every episode. I think all of us will all find something that perhaps jars or doesn't work for them from episode to episode and with others we find a script/story that works. as I keep saying it is all down to individual viewers tastes and what they look for out of their enjoyment of Who. doesn't make either side right or wrong in my book. forums are a way for people to air their views or vent their frustrations. if it is the latter then it is only because they want the series to stay on top of it's game if a particular episode didn't work for them.

Not wishing to sound bossy but I'm not sure what the above discussion has to do with the ratings of the show. It looks more like a rehash of a debate that has been repeated in other threads out there the last few days over and over again....

somerimes you start talking about one thing and it snowballs into another

Ratings for the repeat yesterday of TSE and JE:

BBC1
5.35pm Doctor Who: Stolen Earth 1.6m 12.9%
6.25pm Doctor Who: Journeys End 2.6m 16.0%



Any idea when final ratings for JE will come out?

They should be out on Wednesday afternoon.

Good stuff! Thanks remy!