In short, no. Don't worry about it. International sales & success means the UK rating could essentially drop to zero, and BBC Worldwide would step in to keep it running.

The show does certainly seem to be shifting away from being a "mass audience crowd pleaser" to something more of a "cult fan favourite". It's been heading that way for a few years, but so long as the future is secure, I don't know if fans should be too troubled by that?

And to add fair context, DW barely out rated Pointless and it costs a huge amount more to make. Ripper Street's issue was they couldn't justify its costs with its viewing figures.

Being realistic, something would have to go drastically wrong for them to cancel dw. The overseas sales alone means it'll get a lot of leeway. But at the same time that on the night rating is a bit shit and indicates it's worth trying some changes to bring viewers back and give the show a refresh. No one wants it treading water and going stale.

Put it on any other day of the week and see what happens, for a start.

Or back in the spring!

Tbh I don't know why they moved it from spring in the first place. I know some people REALLY wanted it there but I don't see the benefits tbh. I preferred the gap between the series finishing and Christmas.

I guess the bbc's problem was with Atlantis having tanked is they've currently got no other show of this type for Autumn.

Just hope PC wont get the blame for the ratings "drop". but you can hear the Daily Mail already slavering. Moffat didn't get his persona right last year, totally cold uncaring and some downright daft stories. (oh and Danny bloody pink)

Last night was such a vast improvement for me.

The Daily Mail and it's comments section is very much on side for The Magician's Apprentice - but there'll be a sensationalist headline soon enough

Do we get the AI score today or tomorrow?

The counter argument to what you say is that technology and catch-up TV has increased greatly since those days. If we had the climate we have now back then we could of been looking at similar figures (possibly) the use of catch-up TV is more wide spread available and easier to use.

That being said Dropping below 5-million is disappointing, especially for a series opener, it had things working against it for sure but it still raises questions about the show. Are we just seeing a natural decline that most shows will have when they have been on air for 10 years, are some people losing interest in this style/version of DW or is it something else.... I think it puts light on Moffat and him still having the keys to the show, as if the problem is one of or a mixture of the two possibilities I raised then one way to try and recodify the problem is to have a big shake-up of how to do DW, a new style feel flavour whatever different writers steering the ship.

I enjoyed the opener and most of series 8 but it can't be denied that Moffat is repeating himself and several times I've felt a groan at some of his tendencies that are getting tiring.

I think we need fresh blood and a big tonal/style shift, like how the Pertwee era changed noticeably from the 2nd Doctors time, the ratings were declining in the 2nd Doc time but with a big change in style the show had a kick up the backside and the ratings went up.

We got a great Doctor in Capaldi but he needs to be in a version of the show that's different from the one we've had for the last five years (and one could argue since 2005) DW survives on change and while the actors have changed the tone/style of the show hasn't changed enough IMO and this could leave to some getting disinterested.

Ideally Moffat should of ended (with Clara) at the end of series 8 giving series 9 a fresh start with big differences in how the show feels and works, Capaldi had a series with the old style so helps the transition into a bold new way.

I think at this point keeping the same people in charge of the show is not for the best, it needs a ballsy shake-up, Capaldi should of been the start of that, but they seem to of lost their nerve even with him, now making him softer than the user-unfriendly version we got at his start.

Hopefully the series opener has a massive time-shift to ease concerns.

Tomorrow

Top spot on iPlayer - ever the pity we won't see what that means for a while.

We were supposed to get a massive tonal shift with Capaldi but, apart from 11 being a miserable s**t (which has since been dropped), it didn't really happen.

Yeah, and I think they dropped the ball with that, series 8 wasn't the big shift that we expected and it really should of been a shift, it was the perfect time and Capaldi was the perfect person to do it with.

A new writer(s) in charge is needed for it to happen, Moffat if you love him or hate him (I'm somewhere in the middle) he has a certain style and that style always comes through even when trying to shake things up a bit (like with series 8).

That's actually an appallingly low figure. If I'm right, it's lower than any overnight figure in all of Series 8.
This would be a low figure for any episode, but for a series opener, it's staggeringly low!

Now, I'm not going to start shouting "RATINGS CRISIS: DOCTOR WHO TO BE CANCELLED" just yet. The show could have suffered due to airing just after the Rugby and clashing with XFactor.
For the mean time, let's just wait for the time-shifted results. Even then though, it would need to double in viewers to match the final figure for Deep Breath last year, and Deep Breath still had one of the lowest viewing figures for any opener.

This is a very bad figure and it's likely that even with time-shifting the figure will still be bad, but it could easily be a one-off.
However, if this continues throughout Series 9, then talk of a "ratings crisis" may well actually have solid foundations for once. And if a genuine crisis does develop, then heads will need to roll in order to save the show.

PS. Could the publicising of the series be to blame? I know most of us here are Whovians so follow a lot of DW News outlets, but I know people who watch the show every year who had no idea it was even on yesterday until I told them?

Doctor Who won't be cancelled anytime soon. But it can still get low ratings.

It would take a lot to kill Doctor Who. If a "ratings crisis" does develop, it's far more likely that it will spur the BBC into action to take steps to improve the next series's viewing figures. It would take 3 or 4 years of poor viewing figures for DW to actually get axed.

Of course, it's far too early to decide that it is doing badly. A sample size of one is meaningless.

I bet Pointless celebrities does not rate highly on iPlayer, nor does it timeshift like crazy.

And if you recall, various mouthpieces from this current Government, led by the Culture Secretary and George Osborne, state that the BBC should not be competing with ITV and that it should focus on quality programming that is distinctive. So that does underline the principle that DW overnights should not be too important, overall audience figures are, along with its distinctiveness (and no matter what anyone says, DW remains distinctive).


It will no doubt get a total refresh when either Capaldi and/or Moffat leave. Whether what you envisage is what the BBC want is something else.

I look at it like this:

Doctor Who will not reach crisis point. That just won't be allowed to happen.

Shaking up the production team and replacing a few people if necessary? Absolutely a possibility, and something that I can see happening quite soon.

And that was blamed by the Moffat sycophants on it being shown in cinemas, which apparently massively impacted on TV viewing, yadda yadda.

Well there was no cinema showing this time. And I still wouldn't be surprised to see next week's lower still.

Still, glad to see Moffat's self-indulgent recreation of the Beatles' Abbey Road cover and putting a Dalek in Westminster underground station caused enough publicity to boost the ratings...

Nearly ALL TV programmes get low viewing figures these days.
Not so long ago the soaps would regularly pull in 12 millions viewers, now the live viewing figures are far less than half of that. The vastly popular Downton Abbey returns tonight and I'd put good money on the fact that overnight viewing figures for this show will be way down on the overnights from the previous series. All TV shows are 'suffering' in this way.

But does it really matter? The way people watch TV is has changed so much, in the past few years. It's so easy to watch on catch up, iPlayer, online, or simply recording it and watching later.

Since the Doctor Who returned in 2005 I've avidly watched with my children - mostly on a Saturday night as the show was shown live. But yesterday I took my eldest daughter to University and I was driving home at 7.40pm. I watched it later in the evening. My daughter watched on the iPlayer this morning, and my youngest, who was at a party last night, will watch this afternoon. We are just as devoted fans of the show as we've always been, but I suspect that we shall watch very little of this season as it's first broadcast on Saturday nights.

The crucial test of popularity and success is surely to see how Doctor Who's figures compare with other programmes that day, as the overnight viewing figures are virtually meaningless now.

People can bleat about how 'appalling' the overnight ratings are but it's clear that Doctor Who was the second most watched programme on Saturday (though the doom-mongers are conveniently ignoring this), the episode has gathered some excellent reviews and is currently easily topping the iPlayer ratings.

If that's not a successful TV show then I don't know what is.

All very true.

But it still has to justify its presence and it's massive cost has an affect on that - that's exactly why Ripper Street was cancelled because it cost too much to make for the audience it was getting and they couldn't justify the expense. DW is lucky because obviously it has the added bonus of selling really well but they can't let the show slip too far down. Overall viewing figures have dropped somewhat as has audience enjoyment. Seems like the perfect signal to say lets try something new.


Tbh I wouldn't be surprised at this point if it does get rested or end up with a minimal number of episodes next year so that a new production team can be brought in. Seems a good time to do it with a new main character to be introduced.

You're kidding yourself! There is no sentiment in tv these days. Programmes no longer run and run unless it makes money. It's all about the bottom line. As soon as that is at risk, the show will disappear. Personally, I think it will be picked up by someone like Netflix or Amazon Prime - much like Ripper St. Where ratings and time shifts are not an issue. It will move from the mainstream, into niche television.

Doctor Who is now one of the BBC's most successful, most profitable shows across the world. Low-ish overnights clearly do not affect the worldwide success of Who, so the tabloids and the misery-guts fans can bang on about 'terrible' ratings all they want, but the simple fact is that the BBC isn't going to be bothered one little bit.

We always get angst-ridden comments about the overnight ratings, but year by year the overnight ratings become increasingly less relevant. 2-3 million more people will most certainly watch on catch-up. And remember too the unprecedented level of competition Doctor Who currently has from ITV, with X Factor and the Rugby World Cup. The important thing is, it's still holding its own.

I hope nobody at the BBC gets worried and starts demanding changes. For me, series 8 was a refreshing change and a big improvement on both series 6 and series 7, and series 9 has started very promisingly.

All good points - and what some people tend to forget is that, on very good nights for programming such as last night, very few people will sit down & watch everything that does not clash. they will watch some programmes and take a rest (and thereby watch others on timeshift or when repeated). So, for example, someone who was a Rugby, DW and X Factor fan is unlikely (on the whole) to sit down & watch all three programmes live.