Yes but even so, 80 is a big drop compared to the 82/ 83 is AIs we've been getting this series, especially for an episode like heaven Sent where capaldi's performance has been getting rave reviews

I doubt any change in the AI system would suddenly drop the score by 3/4 points!

Series 8 achieved 3 scores of 85 whereas this series hasn't got above 84.
Series 8's lowest score was 82 whereas this series has got a 78, 80 and 81.

True enough, but the pattern remains to be seen, as does the potential of a schedule move and fresh new start actually bolstering the ratings somewhat. And despite all of that, a significant drop in worldwide fandom and brand appeal would be much more worrying to them. When that happens, we can justifiably worry too.

The show's enormous cost would be hard to justify right now even with last year's ratings. I mean, right now the Beeb is having to justify its very existence as an entertainment channel at all, so Doctor Who would be hard pressed to sustain itself on ratings alone, short of it being the highest rated show on the channel. Which is why I don't fret too much about the ratings in the first place. Doctor Who will survive as a franchise because of the brand, rather than because of the numbers that watch on a Saturday night. Thankfully, this isn't the 1980s anymore and no one is short sighted enough to see the ratings as the be all and end all, or use them as an excuse to cancel the show. Quite the opposite.

And with all due respect to The Musketeers, that show will never be Doctor Who and they won't be selling a bunch of Musketeer toys and DVDs this Christmas, whilst I know of countless people currently scrambling to get hold of the recent 'Night of the Doctor' Eighth Doctor figure alone. I've spent over £100 on the new 5.5 inch range figures alone in the last month. As long as that fandom exists and is looking to spend the cash, the show will be just fine.


Not even gonna comment on how amazed I am that anyone under the age of 30 even contemplates wasting a perfectly good Saturday night on a bunch of one time celebs spinning around a dance floor in front of a bunch of really annoying judges, because I'm well past being shocked at what people will watch if it means that they have the opportunity to vote someone off the show. Not for me at all, but whatever floats their boats, obviously.

Damn, that was pretty much a comment wasn't it?

Out of interest though, do we actually know for sure that either Doctor Who or Merlin ever inherited any serious numbers from Strictly? What I mean is, can we be sure from the ratings how many people actually watched both, or might it not be a case that X amount of people turned off after the dancing ended just as a similar X amount switched on for the Doctor? Because whilst there is no doubt some overlap, from personal experience of the Who fandom I really can't imagine it being all that massive.

Out of interest, of the people you know that watch Strictly, in any age group, how many also watch Doctor Who? And of those, how many watch because they are fans, rather than because they left the remote control in the kitchen when the pizza needed warming up?


Sometimes we take being fans of a time travel show to extremes! Commentary on episodes yet to be broadcast or even written is clearly perfectly fine!

It always amazes me how anyone can dislike Strictly, to be honest. You've got World and National Champion dancers with extraordinary skill and talent putting on incredibly entertaining and spectacular dance routines and Celebrities who show such dedication and hard work that some of them can seem almost as good as their professional partners by the time the final comes along. The production team are amazing at coming up with the most incredible costumes and productions each week. The music is top rate, the guest musicians, often accompanied by the professional dancers are of the highest quality. The picture, incidentally, is some of the best HD I ever see in any show.

My Brother dismisses it as rubbish too. Personally, I just don't get it. You'd be hard pressed to find a more hard-working and dedicated production team or such high quality professional artists taking part on a regular basis.

One of the judges is Darcy Bussel for goodness sake. By all accounts, one of the best Ballerinas this country has ever produced.

There's quality right there.



Sorry, I digress

But... It's dancing...

Sorry Thrombim, I'm being a little facetious here, and it's not my style to dismiss other people's tastes in entertainment, no matter how different they are to my own. Genuinely glad that you enjoy watching it so much, but I just don't like those sort of 'vote off' shows in the first place, be it X Factor, I'm a Celeb or whatever else, and I find dancing really boring to watch in itself, so Strictly is a double no-no for me.

Not that I'm knocking the skill of the dancers involved, however! They can do something I will never be able to do, and they do it incredibly well, but I just get no enjoyment out of watching it, you know?

But yeah, we're digressing! Back to the ratings panicking!

Doctor Who used to be on earlier and was used by the BBC as the 'gateway to Saturday night TV' (their words, not mine).

The BBC hoped the 7m+ viewers who watched Doctor Who early Saturday evening would stick around for the rest of the evening, boosting viewing figures for talent shows like "I'd Do Anything" and "Over the Rainbow" (shudders). Mostly they didn't.

It feels now as though things have turned around and the hope was the SCD would boost Who's viewing figures.

I don't know. I guess my problem with that is that before the move to autumn and before Doctor Who was shunted to the later slot to facilitate the filming of a live reality show, it's ratings really didn't require all that much of a boost. It was doing perfectly well where it was.

I personally think that the BBC's basic idea was to have all their hit shows on at the same time to help create a ratings behemoth autumn Saturday night schedule, thinking that DW fans would follow the show no matter where it was on, which to be fair the large majority actually did, but the plan technically backfired and cost them a sizable chunk of casual viewers. You can add all sorts of additional possibilities to the reason why they walked away, new Doctor, type of stories being told, or whatever else might have attributed to the problem, but I find it extremely hard to believe that the Beeb are ignoring the fact that they made a mistake in moving the show in the first place. Hence the likely upcoming move back to spring.

Just a couple of small points:
1) I think the mainstream TV drama audience is currently bored of fantasy stories. In comparison to other fantasy series made by UK TV on recently, ratings are very good. But on the other hand, DW could do a lot for the fate of fantasy TV generally by not throwing the casual viewer away.

2) it's only a small piece of the puzzle, but I think the fact that there wasn't a spike in the ratings for Clara's official last episode is interesting. It might mean that people weren't that interested in Clara, in which case a new companion, if they cast it right, could give a boost to the show for the casual viewer. Or it's just that there have been so many threatened character deaths and stories about death that nobody cares any more and nobody thinks it is really her last episode, in which case it doesn't mean anything.

When i loved the show, it was all about monsters - turning up on an interesting planet and facing an exciting enemy. I liked that. If I'm totally honest, I don't need the actor playing the Doctor to get a BAFTA. I just mind if the monsters are rubbish. That's just my opinion and I'm not connecting it to the ratings. What I do think though is that if it is now an international cult show about time and death, then it doesn't need to be on Saturday nights at all.

Who knew it was her official last story? I only found out that there were rumours it was her last story from the thread of the episode a few days prior to its broadcast. If I hadn't been frequenting this forum I wouldn't have had a clue.

I still don't know if it was her official last story, to be honest. All I know from the press is that this series is her last series.

I didn't slag it off (I've enjoyed this series) I said I can't see the one million viewers coming back when it's going to be the same Doctor and the same showrunner. The show needs a big shake-up to get the casual viewer interested again and that won't happen until series 11 if all is to be believed.

I watch Strictly, Doctor Who AND Match of the Day

Am I unique

I don't know. But it doesn't matter because I suggested comparing to series 8, which had the same cast, same production team and the same AI system.

Yes - there does seem to be some evidence that the stories this year are being enjoyed somewhat less than last year. It's hard to conclude otherwise when it's the same AI system with no quibbles about whether or not BARB data is included. I've no idea what to conclude from that.

Oh, OK, I'd read it was - I think I'd read coverage in the papers, but it's hard to remember now tbh - and I think of myself as a casual viewer, so I assumed it was generally known. If not, then I take my point back. Fair enough.

I think this year has been a slower pace than previous years. Less romps or frantic action scenes. Presumably the slower pace appeals less to the demographic who make up the AI scores. Plus, with the two-part format several episodes will be like watching only half of a story and it would be easy to imagine that this might affect the ratings as it's hard to get too excited over a half-finished story!

Really early timeslot again for Christmas. Goldilocks syndrome for me, I'm afraid!

Those are pretty much my thoughts exactly. I am pretty fed up of posting about the death obsession (thanatomania?) but what can you do when SM will not leave it alone. I was tired of SM's detractors but now I think I am more fed up of him. I was really enjoying the episode on Saturday until the lunatic resolution.

Still it must have been the most satisfying ep to date from Moffat's perspective. He managed to kill the Doctor hundreds, thousands, millions of times- I really don't know or care. This follows the precedent of the endless deaths of Clara. Surely he must be satisfied by now and we can have a less morbid series for those of who have got the point that we are all going to die some day.

365 billion by my reckoning, assuming once a day for a billion years.


And then be brought back to life again, according to Moffatt.

Yeah, maybe. We have had a fair amount of gloomy moping about this year. Presumably the BBC won't be considering this to be ideal. Lose a million or more viewers then entertain the remainder less than before!

Presumably series 10 will be marketed on something other than it being same old same old and a slow trudge to doom and gloom.

I think you've summed up my feelings perfectly here, nebogipfel

I shall do an episode by episode compasion of Series 8 AI's and Series 9 AI's.

And yes, the average drop of AI's across the board was 2.3 points after BARB Left.

Series 8 and Series 9 AI Comparison:

S8 S9
1) 82 1) 84
2)84 2) 83
3) 82 3) 84
4) 82 4) 83
5) 84 5) 82
6) 83 6) 81
7) 82 7) 82
8) 85 8) 84
9) 85 9) 78
10) 83 10) 84
11) 85 11) 80
12) 83 12) N/A

Series 8 Score out of 11 episodes: 916/1100
Series 9 Score of of 11 episodes: 906/1100

Not much difference, only ten points in it between series.

Note I've missed out ep 12 as this one hasn't been aired for Series 9 yet.

This is the best comparison you can get, due to the BARB exclusion from Name of the Doctor onwards.

Just out of curiosity; are other fandoms as obsessed with ratings as Doctor Who fans seem to be?

I really don't get it. It's like as a collective we crave panic.

I'm pretty sure they are. Certainly I've seen the Eastenders fans discuss ratings.

Thanks for posting that info TorchwoodBoy. Interesting stuff. So really it's mainly episodes 9 and 11 that have let series 9 down in terms of AI's. Which is understandable I guess, given that Sleep no More wasn't well received and Heaven Sent seems to be quite a marmite episode. (I wonder if there's any correlation between loving marmite and loving Heavens sent as I'm quite partial to both).

No, there isn't sadly