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Dr Who Ratings Thread (Merged) |
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#6926 |
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Join Date: May 2015
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It's a shame that nothing seems to be given a chance to grow anymore.
If a show isn't an instant HIT then the BBC seem to regard it as a terrible failure and scrap it. By the time it had reached it's final episode of its first and only series, the top floor had already put the noose around its neck just as it it was gathering momentum and people were starting to genuinely take an interest in the humble beginnings of Europe's largest zoo. Many shows don't really take off until a second series anyway, such as The Office and Little Britain. Where have the chancers gone at the Beeb? |
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#6927 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: uk
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Another prime example of this and where the actual plot and essence of the story was actually about growth, the Sunday drama, Our Zoo. Yes, it may have not been the instant smash hit they were hoping for, but the more I read about on forums or magazine sites where one could leave comments, it was a slow gathering of viewers, a word-of-mouth kind of show and yet all the comments left were always positive.
By the time it had reached it's final episode of its first and only series, the top floor had already put the noose around its neck just as it it was gathering momentum and people were starting to genuinely take an interest in the humble beginnings of Europe's largest zoo. Many shows don't really take off until a second series anyway, such as The Office and Little Britain. Where have the chancers gone at the Beeb? Where are the chancers? It's the same across most of the creative industries - films, TV, music, the true creative visionaries have gradually been replaced by bean counters and people more concerned about protecting their pensions... |
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#6928 |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,887
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There's nothing safe about the last 3 episodes.
In all honesty, I'm expecting another drop in ratings next series based on what I saw in the last two episodes of this series. I can honestly imagine a casual viewer watching those two episodes utterly confused - heck I'm a regular viewer and I'm not sure I followed it completely either. My older parents, both in their 60s didn't get it at all and both of them are regular viewers. I wouldn't even say they were episodes aimed at the hard core fan, they were simply confusing and, to me at least, unrewarding. I think SM is trying too hard to out-think the audience and his stories, more than any other writer, seem to have gotten more convoluted year by year. We keep blaming sporting events, the X-Factor, the timeslot for the ratings drop and maybe that's partly to blame but I think the biggest reason for the drop in viewers is simply that people haven't liked what they are getting and have moved on. |
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#6929 |
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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I suspect there's something in that. Of course we have to remember that it is still getting solid viewing figures and there's no crisis. But although scheduling and clashes etc probably played a part, I do suspect there's something about series 8 and series 9 that have led to the 1.5 million drop (or possibly only 1 million drop if we factor in a guess about late binge viewing).
Moffat said he wrote the Christmas special specifically to counter the gloom of series 9. I think he might well carry that thinking through to series 10. This is a shame for those who really enjoyed the tone of series 8 and series 9 (e.g. saladfingers is a big fan of the way they played the Doctor in series 8), but I suspect series 10 will not be like series 8. I've got sympathy for salad and his ilk. I loved this years slightly softer 12th Doctor but still appreciated his edge and non 10th/11thness. Hopefully they'll keep that balance right for the Doctor's performance, but just brighten the show up a bit in other parts of tone. A bit less gloom and probably not an arc about death. I'm fairly certain the Moffat plots and scripts will retain the elements complained of above - narrative tricks with the non linear, a lot of set up to get us to a point where we realise the Doctor (or villain) has been setting up a secret plan all along, keeping everything one step ahead of the audience. They're simply Moffat's thing. I doubt he can change it that much. A memorable straight down the middle linear traditional Doctor Who story was The Beast Below - it bombed and Moffat said in DWM that he knew it. (I liked it! Not many others did). So I don't think series 10 will be totally RTD style. Just a bit. I thought the finale and everything leading up to it was all pretty well done. The finale was certainly different and confounded expectations. It was, after all, pretty much just conversations in various halls and corridors. But I kind of admire it. (It ain't flawless, but Doctor Who never is). |
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#6930 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Essex
Posts: 8,405
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Moffat said he wrote the Christmas special specifically to counter the gloom of series 9. I think he might well carry that thinking through to series 10. This is a shame for those who really enjoyed the tone of series 8 and series 9 (e.g. saladfingers is a big fan of the way they played the Doctor in series 8), but I suspect series 10 will not be like series 8.
Season 7's fun adventure-of-the-week structure was a direct response to criticisms of season 6 being weighed down by heavy story arcs and complicated plots. He also wrote off all of his on-going story threads with Matt Smith's finale in order to give Peter Capaldi a fresh start. He steered clear of mentioning the whole 'Impossible Girl' stuff again even when presented with an obvious opportunity to do so (Clara inside a Dalek). And, again, with Peter he refreshed the Doctor's character for season 9 when the more callous, negative Doctor from season 8 appeared to rub the audience up the wrong way. So whilst the show did well critically in 2015, I think he will take note of the 1m+ who turned off and any audience research the BBC provides him with, which (I personally think) will be telling a different story to the positive newspaper and online reviews. The only issue I have is that you can only continue to change a character like the 12th Doctor so much before he ultimately becomes a completely different character. If they don't deliver a believable 12th Doctor in season 10 who really resonates with the audience and draws viewers back to the show, there will come a point when Moffat (or someone at the BBC) might have to accept that they got the 12th Doctor wrong and it's time to bring in someone new. |
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#6931 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Having now watched the final three episodes I have to disagree. Episode 11 was certainly different but skippable and anything remotely edgy was blunted by the vaguely happy ending conclusion to Hell Bent. Or was it a sad ending? I'm not sure and that's the problem.
In all honesty, I'm expecting another drop in ratings next series based on what I saw in the last two episodes of this series. I can honestly imagine a casual viewer watching those two episodes utterly confused - heck I'm a regular viewer and I'm not sure I followed it completely either. My older parents, both in their 60s didn't get it at all and both of them are regular viewers. I wouldn't even say they were episodes aimed at the hard core fan, they were simply confusing and, to me at least, unrewarding. I think SM is trying too hard to out-think the audience and his stories, more than any other writer, seem to have gotten more convoluted year by year. We keep blaming sporting events, the X-Factor, the timeslot for the ratings drop and maybe that's partly to blame but I think the biggest reason for the drop in viewers is simply that people haven't liked what they are getting and have moved on. But that's not the problem - the problem is, I don't care if I didn't get it. I just wasn't interested enough to give a cuss what it was all about. |
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#6932 |
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Wigan
Posts: 4,877
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I am not a fan of Moffat's Doctor Who but I will give him credit for taking note of critical feedback.
Season 7's fun adventure-of-the-week structure was a direct response to criticisms of season 6 being weighed down by heavy story arcs and complicated plots. He also wrote off all of his on-going story threads with Matt Smith's finale in order to give Peter Capaldi a fresh start. He steered clear of mentioning the whole 'Impossible Girl' stuff again even when presented with an obvious opportunity to do so (Clara inside a Dalek). And, again, with Peter he refreshed the Doctor's character for season 9 when the more callous, negative Doctor from season 8 appeared to rub the audience up the wrong way. So whilst the show did well critically in 2015, I think he will take note of the 1m+ who turned off and any audience research the BBC provides him with, which (I personally think) will be telling a different story to the positive newspaper and online reviews. The only issue I have is that you can only continue to change a character like the 12th Doctor so much before he ultimately becomes a completely different character. If they don't deliver a believable 12th Doctor in season 10 who really resonates with the audience and draws viewers back to the show, there will come a point when Moffat (or someone at the BBC) might have to accept that they got the 12th Doctor wrong and it's time to bring in someone new. I would like to see 12 free from the worry about Clara and free to enjoy solving each new story's mystery. He can still be caustic and caring.
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#6933 |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,887
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I'm in my 60s and I'm not sure whether that's relevant, but I didn't really get it either.
But that's not the problem - the problem is, I don't care if I didn't get it. I just wasn't interested enough to give a cuss what it was all about. But can I theorise here? Part of a good arc is trying to guess the mysteries using the clues dropped along the way. In recent years the conclusions just come out of nowhere and maybe, just maybe, that's contributed to the apathy? Why get involved in the story when it's impossible to guess it anyway? In addition, I'm not sure if I could even tell you the answers to the mysteries of this season. What was the hybrid? No idea. Why are Gallifrey suddenly interested in the hybrid? Not a clue. How did Gallifrey return from where ever it went? Dunno (and I was surprised the script actually said as much). Why is Rassilon, one of the most revered and famous Time Lords considered less important than the Doctor? No clue - maybe it's all about unicorns? . It's all a mixed up mess to me and like yourself I struggle to get excited about the show now.
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#6934 |
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 68,697
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I'm in my 60s and I'm not sure whether that's relevant, but I didn't really get it either.
But that's not the problem - the problem is, I don't care if I didn't get it. I just wasn't interested enough to give a cuss what it was all about. |
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#6935 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 554
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Does it, I thought that was Channel 4's remit? (Or at least it was when Channel 4 was first founded).
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#6936 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 554
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Having now watched the final three episodes I have to disagree. Episode 11 was certainly different but skippable and anything remotely edgy was blunted by the vaguely happy ending conclusion to Hell Bent. Or was it a sad ending? I'm not sure and that's the problem.
As for Heaven Sent, the critical reception was VERY positive, indeed on IMDB it's currently the second highest rated episode EVER. I'm not saying that means that everyone here has to like it or love it, but it's consistent with the good reception S9 has generally got. |
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#6937 |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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As for Heaven Sent, the critical reception was VERY positive, indeed on IMDB it's currently the second highest rated episode EVER. I'm not saying that means that everyone here has to like it or love it, but it's consistent with the good reception S9 has generally got.
The truth is that the show has lost a chunk of it's audience so it's doing something wrong. Something has turned 1m+ viewers off the show and I'd argue that is more important than any review. PS. I'm sure many people loved Heaven Sent. I just happen to know none of them
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#6938 |
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Join Date: May 2005
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And yet S9 is the lowest rated series of New Who by some margin. Will those critical reviews bring back lost viewers? I doubt it. Critics are often out of step with the audience. Heck, the Transformers movies are critically panned, I personally hate them and yet they make silly amounts of money. The truth is that the show has lost a chunk of it's audience so it's doing something wrong. Something has turned 1m+ viewers off the show and I'd argue that is more important than any review. PS. I'm sure many people loved Heaven Sent. I just happen to know none of them
![]() I make a point of reading all the reviews every week - from the broadsheets to the tabloids to the online reviews. I do feel that almost all the reviews are now being written by either Who fans or genre fans (as opposed to more general "TV critics") and it does feel as though a disproportionate number of those critics think Moffat can do no wrong. Even an absolute stinker like Sleep No More failed to garner anything more critical than "its not the strongest episode this year". Certainly, there isn't any 'big picture' view of the show through the critics. There doesn't appear to be anyone talking about whether the show is still attracting women, or how the darker tone and more callous incarnation of the Doctor is impacting on the children who were watching the show a few years ago. |
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#6939 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Midlands
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I make a point of reading all the reviews every week - from the broadsheets to the tabloids to the online reviews. I do feel that almost all the reviews are now being written by either Who fans or genre fans (as opposed to more general "TV critics") and it does feel as though a disproportionate number of those critics think Moffat can do no wrong.
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#6940 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,506
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I make a point of reading all the reviews every week - from the broadsheets to the tabloids to the online reviews. I do feel that almost all the reviews are now being written by either Who fans or genre fans (as opposed to more general "TV critics") and it does feel as though a disproportionate number of those critics think Moffat can do no wrong.
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#6941 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Essex
Posts: 8,405
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Or they've simply felt very enthusiastic about this series because they've enjoyed it?
One of them should be voicing concerns about the direction/tone of the show or how accessible the new Doctor is. Or something. Like it or not this all adds up to one thing: the critics are increasingly out of step with the viewing public. And it won't do the show any good in the long run to keep appeasing critics at the expense of viewers. Particularly when the spoiler-free previews are all so "OMG this is amazing" and the actual experience on the night is 'meh'. |
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#6942 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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Yes, absolutely, they 100% are. But the show lost almost 1.25m viewers in a single year and I would expect at least one of the critics to have raised a red flag by now.
One of them should be voicing concerns about the direction/tone of the show or how accessible the new Doctor is. Or something. Like it or not this all adds up to one thing: the critics are increasingly out of step with the viewing public. And it won't do the show any good in the long run to keep appeasing critics at the expense of viewers. Particularly when the spoiler-free previews are all so "OMG this is amazing" and the actual experience on the night is 'meh'. The critical reviews are there to offer their personal thoughts on the episode, not to raise an introspective into viewing figures and what everybody else wants. If they loved the episode, that's what they'll write, not "but Peter Capaldi is old and many people don't like that... also there was a scene I thought was brilliant but because of opinions maybe not everybody will agree with me" And the same applies if they weren't so thrilled by an episode. As for the actual experience being "meh" that is only your opinion; don't conflate it with fact. Many people would agree with you, many people would disagree. |
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#6943 |
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Join Date: May 2005
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As for the actual experience being "meh" that is only your opinion; don't conflate it with fact. Many people would agree with you, many people would disagree.
But for the past couple of years we have seen overwhelming positive reviews week after week whilst a big chunk of the viewing public switched off. That's my point of view - the critics are now out of touch with the public. As for the 'meh' comment - look at how the previews for the likes of Sleep No More and Heaven Sent differed from the AIs and the Twitter reaction. Sleep No More was previewed as 'OK but above average' and yet was massively unpopular (even on here). Meanwhile, the "astonishing" Heaven Sent could not have been more Marmite. But where were the negative previews and reviews? In all honesty, at least one of them should have delivered a scathing review of Heaven Sent. The fact all the reviews were overwhelmingly positive reflects the issue I am writing about. |
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#6944 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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I think you are missing the point of what I am saying. General TV critics wouldn't be delivering a positive consensus week after week, they would be delivering a range of hot and cold reviews for each episode.
But for the past couple of years we have seen overwhelming positive reviews week after week whilst a big chunk of the viewing public switched off. That's my point of view - the critics are now out of touch with the public. As for the 'meh' comment - look at how the previews for the likes of Sleep No More and Heaven Sent differed from the AIs and the Twitter reaction. Sleep No More was previewed as 'OK but above average' and yet was massively unpopular (even on here). Meanwhile, the "astonishing" Heaven Sent could not have been more Marmite. But where were the negative previews and reviews? In all honesty, at least one of them should have delivered a scathing review of Heaven Sent. The fact all the reviews were overwhelmingly positive reflects the issue I am writing about. I disagree about the general reaction to Heaven Sent: for the most part it seemed in line with what the previews thought, which was that it was an astonishing and unique episode. The only negativity I saw was on here, but don't forget that this site amongst others on the internet are no large reflection of what people in general think about the show. If that was the case, it never would have been renewed for a second series. |
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#6945 |
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,079
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It's all so subjective what makes 'good' or 'great' Who, or anything else. Stating the bleedin' obvious. Said this before (I'm boring myself too!) but personally I've never taken what is 'popular' as any sign of quality. General *popularity*, yes. Of course. A lot of stuff I don't give two figs about gets great ratings on TV. Do I think 'Heaven Sent' (Superb) or, say, 'The Impossible Planet...' (my favourite series 2 story and until recently the lowest rated C21 story) deserved more? Yep. I believe Voyage of the Damned is still the most popular C21 Who story ratings wise. I personally don't think that reflects it's quality as I don't care if I never see it again!
But if you liked the previous direction of the programme, one can say "Hey, look at the viewing figures! This proves what sort of stuff they should be making!" If you didn't, you can say "Yeah, great viewing figures. Good for the show. Shame it was pretty bad, mind!" I will now desist from stating the bleedin' obvious. Apologise. It got away from me.... |
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#6946 |
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Essex
Posts: 8,405
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I agree that high viewing figures don't necessarily equate to quality programming.
But I would also say that falling viewing figures don't necessarily mean increasing standards. Sometimes viewers switch off simply because a show isn't as good as it used to be. |
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#6947 |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,887
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I disagree about the general reaction to Heaven Sent: for the most part it seemed in line with what the previews thought, which was that it was an astonishing and unique episode. The only negativity I saw was on here, but don't forget that this site amongst others on the internet are no large reflection of what people in general think about the show. If that was the case, it never would have been renewed for a second series.
If a lifelong fan turns off an episode then that's not good news.But here's the main point. A critic praises the episode, do the ratings climb? No. Because the only way that happens is word of mouth. By people going to work on Monday and chatting about how amazing the show is, how unmissable it's become. There's no buzz around the show, people aren't talking about it and those that are watching are starting to drift away. It's a slow walk to cancellation I'm afraid and sticking our head in the sand and pretending it's all okay because this series had good reviews isn't going to help. I personally think this next series is really important now. If it loses the same audience again then the show will be getting the same ratings as the now cancelled Atlantis. Dangerous waters. |
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#6948 |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 629
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Chrst even I turned off Timelash half way thru. Personally I loved series 9 and critically it got loads of positive reviews. If we all liked the same thing it would be boring.
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#6949 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 4,313
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Not sure if this has been mentioned on the forum, I can't find anything but BBC4 are showing an old episode on Monday 28th and Tuesday 29th December so it'll be interesting to see the ratings although I'm guessing not much on BBC4 rates too highly. This is from the TV Cream newsletter...
19.00 Doctor Who Once more we'll take this opportunity to marvel at the continued success of the Pops repeats, given that the last time the Beeb decided to start an exhaustive Doctor Who repeat run in 1999, they only got through three stories before abandoning it in the face of hopeless ratings, and that's a show with a far bigger fanbase. There's still space for the odd repeat, mind, and here's The Face Of Evil shown over the next two nights for pretty much no reason at all, other than the fact it went out over the Christmas period in 1976. And that is it. |
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#6950 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,506
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I still find that odd because I don't personally know a single person that liked the episode. My Dad, a fan since the very first episode in 1963 turned the episode off after 30 minutes. He's never done that before, not once, not even during Timelash
If a lifelong fan turns off an episode then that's not good news.But here's the main point. A critic praises the episode, do the ratings climb? No. Because the only way that happens is word of mouth. By people going to work on Monday and chatting about how amazing the show is, how unmissable it's become. There's no buzz around the show, people aren't talking about it and those that are watching are starting to drift away. It's a slow walk to cancellation I'm afraid and sticking our head in the sand and pretending it's all okay because this series had good reviews isn't going to help. I personally think this next series is really important now. If it loses the same audience again then the show will be getting the same ratings as the now cancelled Atlantis. Dangerous waters. I really don't think the show is in that much danger, partly because it's difficult to judge based on the ratings when a lot of TV in general has seen decline. There's still a huge buzz around the show, whether it's the internet exploding because there's a new series or if it's the general public talking about what they loved and hated about it. |
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