Actually (with reference to the back issues of the DS Ratings Thread) this year is very similar to last year with the Paul O'Grady show airing Xmas 2014 at 17:50 to 18:50 compared with DW's 18:15 to 19:15, and getting an average of 3.23 with a peak of 4.28 at 18:40 halfway through DW, suggesting they each have their own audience - which is all I was saying in the first place. It's not like this year is DW vs Jeckyll and Hyde, now that would be a smackdown

Thanks, those 2014 overnights are actually remarkably consistent over the evening, BUT do suggest that the later slots get higher live viewing figures.

Yes, it's a Christmas Special rather than part of the main series, but by far the most popular one of those shows normally is Strictly, which isn't reflected in the overnights.

I suspect that by 9pm everyone is stuffed and knackered, the elderly relatives have gone home, and everyone will be happy to watch anything that's easy to follow!

Based on personal observation it's usually the case that kids are dragged by their parents to visit grandparents at Xmas rather than elderly relatives coming to visit. I suspect a fair number of those kids will be bored sh*tless by 5.15pm and allowed to watch Dr Who just to keep them quiet for an hour.

I'll probably timeshift it myself and watch it a little later but not too late. It's the only programme I'm interested in on Xmas day so hardly worth turning the TV on and then going back to whatever I was doing before it started.

Have you been spying on my house?

So you haven't watched the show yet you claim Moffat is a terrible writer based on what? If you haven't seen the show how can you say its good or not?

Even stranger, your on a board for Doctor Who fans commenting on something you haven't watched and wanting it cancelled. If you don't like it don't watch it bit wanting it cancelled when other people enjoy seems a bit mean spirited.

Tom Spilsbury makes some very good points in the latest DWM about Who's ratings, timeslot, etc.

He mentions that Who is in the 'good' rather than 'excellent' category for BBC Dramas, alongside the likes of 'The Syndicate' and 'New Tricks' and 'Ordinary Lies' (I would now add 'Luther' looking at it's ratings this year) but behind the likes of 'Death in Paradise', 'Silent Witness' etc. The part that really resonated I'll quote (I assume Tom wont mind!

"Who has been starting after 8pm this year-sometimes as late as 8.25pm.With a post 9pm finish it's probably too late in the evening for younger children to watch. And if the young audience doesn't happen to stumble upon the show now, what chance will they have of becoming hooked? Yes, there's iplayer, but I'm not at all convinced that viewers *discover* shows on iplayer....we've got to think of the audience of years to come, and if youngsters aren't coming to Doctor Who in 2015, that's bad news for the future."

Think that's very true and a great argument for an earlier transmission. Every new episode of Who is potentially a child's introduction to the programme. It's why I'm cool with the Christmas Day slot. Away from fandom and it's potential to be jaded and cynical and hyper critical (Not knocking that, btw! That's a % of all fandoms!) hopefully some kids will watch a fun episode on Friday, and be captivated by the programme. And whatever time of the year Who returns, I hope it's in an earlier time slot.

(turns to camera)

And a Merry Christmas to all of you at home!

Tom makes a good point but I'd add to that that I don't think we've had the younger crowd joining in for a while and I think that's due to the tone of the show as much as the time slot.

Yeah, I was watching an old David Tennant episode on Watch yesterday and whilst in comparison to Peter Capaldi's two series it looks like something that should've been on CBBC I can see why kids were attracted to it. Those kids watching David Tennant hopefully still watch now but are young kids today all that interested in series 8 & 9?

Attracting the kids is important as they will be the adult audience in the future.

It's the same reason why banks offer junior savings accounts and software companies let students use their software for free or at vastly reduced cost. Once you're into their products at a young age you're much less likely to move to a competitor.

If you enjoy DW as a child you'll probably still have at least an affection for it as an adult and encourage your kids to watch it too.

I personally worry there is also an issue about fewer female viewers watching the show. I've always thought the likes of Rose, Martha, Donna and Doctors 9 and 10 brought a sense of romance to the show, and a smidgen of sex too. And all the kitchen-sink drama elements that I know forum members of here really loved ()

But I think those elements became diluted after 2010 and were eventually lost entirely. And I think that is making fewer women watch.

So I don't think Doctor Who is a show that necessarily attracts mums anymore and I think that's another reason we might be losing the young kids - they were the children watching it on Saturday evening with the rest of the family, with both mum and dad.

Now I think it's more likely to be just dad, watching it the next day on his own.

So whilst I do think the later timeslot has had some impact, I do think there's a problem with the content of the show right now and (unfortunately) that includes the casting.

Viewing figures were fine for season 8 in the same time slot so I'm not convinced that Tom's argument (on the cumulative impact of the later time slot) can be blamed on such a big drop in a single year.

The show originally had 3 companions and various combinations since to cover most areas of, ah, "visual" appeal to the audience. Classically, the attractive young female assistant was said to be there for "dad appeal".

If the show was appealing enough to the kids, there'd be no problem getting the mums to sit down and watch as well.

I don't really think there's an age problem here at all. Originally the Doctor was cast quite old, and yet, Hartnell apparently was hugely popular with kids. Some kids want/need an authority figure to look up to - even today!

It's not the actor's age. I suspect for kids and the general audience, it's the gloomy tone of the recent series that's lead to a drop off. I consider myself a fan (and occasionally an adult! ) and even I think there weren't enough simple, fun stories in the last series.

hmmmmm women only watch kitchen sink dramas or romance?? not sure about that one. I think its more the later timeslot

I don't know if it's just my female friends but none of them fit that stereotype. They don't tune in for romance or sex. Like myself, they aren't opposed to seeing someone attractive on screen but if they really wanted romance and fantasy they'd be tuning into Outlander not Doctor Who (well actually one of them does but the rest don't ) They tune into to be entertained, nothing more.

I have to be honest, Rooks, I've no evidence at all beyond anecdotal but the women I know are almost all mums in their late 30s/40s who used to watch every week but have given up at various stages over the past five years. Most of the men I know are still watching.

I'd be interested to know if the BBC has audience research to show whether it is women who've stopped watching, or children, or just a general cross section.

Have the kids of those mums you know stopped watching? Or do their kids watch DW now on their own?

I realise the choice of what to watch lies with the parents, but in some cases, when there's a show that kids want to watch - and it's a family show that has enough about it to entertain adults too, such as DW - parents, and especially mums, will sit down and watch a show with their kids - especially their younger kids.

Mostly they have but this, I think, is where the later time slot comes into effect.

I do think when the show was on earlier parents might have considered letting their kids watch on their own.

But I'm not sure parents would do that now with it being on after 8pm.

Well this is something to savour.


Quite amused that Christmas Day has quickly become one of the most underwhelming days of the year for ratings. Even Strictly and Downton couldn't hit 7m? Telling shares about the CD audience.

Really pleasantly surprised with the day's ratings!

Decent performance, there! And Corrie just edged it over Who if you include +1. Another general drop in Xmas ratings across the board, but I'm pleased with that overnight...and a very good share.

Actually surprised!, thought it would be lower with the nasty ratings the series has been pulling out this year....

So Doctor who was the 7th most watched show
Even Downton didn't reach the 7m?

And just think when Voyage of the dammed pulled in 13.31 million with a 51.6% audience share

Some Christmas ratings to compare (courtesy of Hassaan)

2012

17:15 - Doctor Who: 7.59m (33.9%)
18:15 - Strictly Come Dancing Christmas Special: 7.76m (33.3%)
19:30 - Call the Midwife: 7.27m (28.3%)
20:45 - EastEnders: 9.37m (34.3%)

20:45 - Downton Abbey: 6.83m (25.9%) (exc. +1)

2013

17:00 - Strictly Come Dancing: 7.3m (35.4%) ( -0.46m y-o-y )
18:15 - Call the Midwife: 7.1m (30.1%) ( -0.17m y-o-y )
19:30 - Doctor Who: 8.3m (30.7%) ( + 0.71m y-o-y )
20:30 - EastEnders: 7.8m (29.0%) ( -1.57m y-o-y )
21:30 - Mrs Brown's Boys: 9.4m (35.5%)

20:30 - Downton Abbey: 6.6m (25.4%) (exc +1)

2014

17:00 - Strictly Come Dancing: 6.98m (35.1%) ( -0.32m y-o-y )
18:15 - Doctor Who: 6.34m (27.5%) ( -1.96m y-o-y )
19:50 - Call the Midwife: 6.83m (27.9%) ( -0.27m y-o-y )
21:00 - EastEnders: 7.55m (30.2%) ( -0.25m y-o-y )
22:05 - Mrs Brown's Boys: 7.61m (32.2%) ( -1.79m y-o-y )

21:00 - Downton Abbey: 5.84m (24.5%) (exc. +1)

2015

17:15 - Doctor Who: 5.77m (29.4%) ( -0.57m y-o-y )
18:15 - Strictly Come Dancing Christmas Special: 6.49m (30.3%) ( -0.49m y-o-y )
19:30 - Call the Midwife Christmas Special: 5.80m (24.5%) ( -1.03m y-o-y )
20:45 - EastEnders: 5.73m (23.8%) ( -1.82m y-o-y )
21:45 - Mrs Brown's Boys Christmas Special: 6.41m (27.7%) ( -1.2m y-o-y )

20:45 - Downton Abbey: 6.88m (29.6%) (inc. +1)

Christmas 2014 was the most timeshifted week of television until October pipped it. We'll see how this week fares.

Television ratings are very low.. its Xmas when its expected that many will have the TV on and yet no programme got above 7 million... this says something about TV and everything around it... I'm just not sure what were people playing games instead.

All in all, very similar to last year. The swap with Strictly didn't do any harm.

It's an underwhelming lineup of shows though and has been over the last few years. The main channels make very little effort (by historical standards) and I think the audience are responding to that. They used to make so many special episodes that they'd stretch across a week of programming. Sadly no longer

Good performance for Doctor Who. Ratings down on last year but share was excellent compared to recent episodes. Hated the episode though but at least it did well.