You may have a point there Wizzy. I do think that RTD catered more for the general or casual viewer whereas Moffat appears to cater to Whovians specifically. Nothing wrong with either, and if he can get the everyday casual fans on board then all the better.

But if it loses viewers would the BBC be happy to run with that? I don't like the idea of changing showrunner. I think if it does prove to be a problem, and I'm not saying it's going to, then he is quite capable I'm sure, of making his stories less complex.

I also think that after watching hours of tv on Friday many people had tv fatigue on Saturday as can be seen by the total viewers for all tv that day.

I do wonder why those arguing so strongly about ratings drops are so passionate in their arguments? Very British to knock something down and revel in its failure I suppose.
Until we see final figures, there's not much to moan about other than the inescapable fact that overnights ARE down. That's all there is to say. Summer heat, extended weekend, wedding fatigue, early timeslot, dreadful programmes either side. The list of possible reasons is endless and somewhere on that list is the idea that viewers may be actually turning off. But no need to leap straight to it...

Back away folks, there's nothing to see here!

I like how anyone who claims that a 1.1 million viewer drop means that people are switching off because its not appealing to the mass audience any more, but anyone who uses other statistics to suggest otherwise are "making excuses."

You could just as easily reverse that stupid logic and say that anyone making claims that the drop proves people don't like the show any more are making excuses to try and prove it is not popular any more.

The fact is we haven't interviewed the people who watched as it aired last week, in order to find out why they didn't watch this week. My best friend and his girlfriend watched it later in iPlayer. They were both excited to watch the episode, but knowing that there was no necessity to watch it live, decided to spend the early evening enjoying the sun. I'd also add that neither of them were interested in the show until Moffatt took over. My mate's girlfriend doesn't even usually like this sort of show, but was converted to it last year.

Anecdotal evidence, for sure, but its just as relavent as those who say they know people who have turned off because they no longer like it. Some may have turned off, but others have turned on too.

I find it weird that people trash the final figures as "excuses" and make out the overnights are more relavent. How are timeshifted figures not relavent? If you want to make a valid point using statistics, you can'tpick and choose which statistics are allowed to make the cut.

I do think that is a weak point of consolidated viewings as a whole, though I doubt something like, say, the Royal Wedding would see many people watch a repeat on iplayer after watching the ceremony live. I do think I'm right in saying Doctor Who is one of the bigger timeshifters.

It'd make me laugh if one day they manage to place BARB boxes in every house in the land and it turns out Coronation Street barely breaks through the 4m mark weekly while The Lakes achieves 8m+, just because the 5100 households were soap fans so skewed the figures. (Will never happen, but it would make me laugh )

It might do in the future. I expect all TV broadcasts will eventually end up as IP streams over the internet (probably to a set-top box). Once that is happening, it would be easy to have the boxes collect data on what is being watched and provide far more accurate viewing figures.

It would be able to tell if people are watching live, recording to to watch later or streaming via an iPlayer-like on-demand service. Would provide much better figures than the current BARB system ever could.

Excellent post. Surely its time the BBC stopped propping up SYTYCD and move Dr Who to a later slot. Obviously people just dont want to watch SYTYCD no matter what programme they put on before it. Feel its time the schedule was changed a bit.

Probably going to sound a bit stupid but surely the unseasonably warm weather at the moment will mean a lot of people are going out, sitting in beer gardens etc til night falls on a weekend instead of sitting inside while the sun's shining? Of course that would affect all programmes not just DW. I know loads of people who have been watching DW on iPlayer because they've been out enjoying the weather.

It has affected all programmes. Doctor Who might have lost 1.1 million viewers (in the overnights only, of course), but it was still the highest rated show on BBC1 and the second-highest rated show of the day across all channels.

Also, as we've now seen the TIA gained something in the region of 2.3 million viewers in the final ratings - which is a pretty spectacular shift - it's not out of the realms of possibility that we will see a lot of those 1.1 million lost viewers show up in the final ratings.

Not all, probably, but then its the normal trend for the second episode to get lower figures than the first (and before anyone brings up that it was a two-parter, we've seen ratings drop across two-parters in the previous years, too).

The fact is, we really cannot judge how bad the ratings are until we get the final figure.

Don't Scare the Hare: 1.9m > 1.4m; down 0.5m
Doctor Who: 6.5m > 5.4m; down 1.1m
So You Think You Can Dance?: 3.6m > 3.2; down 0.4m
Who Dares Wins: 3.6m > 4.0m; up 4.0m
Casualty: 4.3m > 4.6m; up 0.3m

Sing If You Can: 3.4m > 3.3m; down 0.1m
Britain's Got Talent: 9.5m > 9.5m; no change
Piers Morgan's Life Stories: 3.9m > 3.9m; no change

It's hard to make a like-for-like comparison for early evening ITV because they aired a two hour show between 5 and 7 last weekend; and had a half hour You've Been Framed this weekend.

By 16-17%?

The way we are watching TV has changed.

I think the digital switchover carries some of the blame.

In my house, we could get BBC 1 on analogue - but, even with a Freeview equipped TV, the reception in my room means I can't even get BBC 1 on digital.

But the main reason is that more people are choosing to watch their TV on demand.

It used to be that you'd sacrifice your fun in the sun to see Doctor Who live rather than try to record it.

With iPlayer, you get excellent quality - so why not carry on sipping cocktails on the lawn and watch it later?

I don't use my TV anymore - I watch iPlayer instead.

The overnights for episode 1 are a less than impressive 6 million - but then 3 million watched it later.

That says it all.

Rise of the Cybermen - 9.2 million

Age of Steel - 7.6 million

That's a fair drop for a two-parter.

Thanks for the link to that.

I am quite shocked that iplayer views are not counted, since so many of us use the iplayer as an alternative to recording, (not everyone has sky plus or whatever) and I would have thought the BBC realise this is an alternate audience as opposed to just those re-watching.

I can watch my laptop on my tv, as can so many others, and not everyone has sky or the capacity to record tv, but nearly all of us have access to the internet. Weird but true. You would think they would view this as such?

I think the figures will only get better and better-each story demands you watch next week-as it should be!!

They do realise the importance of iPlayer. Not only have they always released separate iPlayer stats on a monthly basis (for example: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcintern...ayer_mont.html), they have now introduce an additional measurement called Live +7


http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pre...23/live7.shtml

and

http://mediatel.co.uk/newsline/2011/...first-results/

I guess that it takes longer to collate those figures though.

Way back in 2008 it appears 7.5m Final viewing figure was considered to be "Excellent". I found this post when straying to the front page of this thread:


So, with 7.5m being "excellent", it looks as though the first episode attracted a stonking more than a million above the "excellent" benchmark. Wow: This person must be cock-a-hoop! Well done SM!!! A million more than "Excellent"

Now, we await the news of the second episode. I wonder if the final figure will approach or equal "Excellent"?

the ratings appear quite low for series 6 so far...
its a genuine question here, without trying to sugar coat it, as some people love to do on this forum, are the ratings a concern?
i personally think 6pm on a saturday is just too early.
i sky plus it, but not everyone does that, some people forget etc etc.
i know in the old days it used to be on earlier, but times have changed. especially during this part of the year. 6pm is just a really awkward time for the majority.
i honestly think ratings would improve by ATLEAST 1million if it was shown at 7, like back in 05.
to be honest im terrified the axe will fall

Please, please, please, check the official ratings thread first before adding another "IS DOCTOR WHO GOING TO BE CANCELLED?!?"!?!??!!?" thread to the list.

The first episode received a final rating of 8.86 million... a 43.3% share! (Not achieved for the episode slot since Rose, I believe)

The overnights might not appear fantastic, but the BBC do look at the timeshift more and more.

The axe won't fall! DW will be around a while longer yet! But yes,6pm is too early, but the shows preceeding and following DW are dire so considering those shows are a big turn off, I'd say DW's ratings are impressive by that context! I mean would YOU put TV on to watch Don't Scare The Hare just because DW was on afterwards? There's your answer!

Doctor Who gets low initial ratings but high ratings afterwards. Like Moffat said, it's like a book. Who rushes out on launch day for a book these days? It's what happens on the long term. Also it's worth looking at audience share than actual number.

Why put it on at 8pm? Shows like Who Dares Wins will get high initial ratings but who would iplayer it?

As long as Doctor Who gets the ratings over a certain period and everyone still loves it then it's all good!

That's a bit of leading question, don't you think? If someone posts that no, it's nothing to worry about, because of X, Y and Z, then that could easily be dismissed as sugar coating.

What would you accept as real reassurances?

It doesn't seem like the world's biggest leap to say that if there are a million less viewers than last week - then a million people saw it last week who didn't like it enough to come back.

If the timeshifts come in about the same, then much humble pie will I eat and enjoy the taste.

But weather or no, it is a concern. If the Moff is alienating the casual viewer - and yes, that is just if - then the trend will only get worse over the course of the series.

Thanks for the info.

I don't see it as a worry at all then. By the time they collate those the figure will be even higher. Yay.

I think it would have to drop considerably for it to be damaging, survivors dropped to 4 million I think before it was scrapped, I dont think that DW would ever get that low.

As for putting it on earlier - if the BBC have determined that people will watch it on iPlayer or recorded instead of live, then they'll be quite happy to put it on earlier and use it to lead audiences into programmes that won't be caught up on.