Dr Who Ratings Thread (Merged)

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Vabosity

03-05-2011

I'm not knocking RTD, I enjoyed many of the episodes from his era, but he effectively turned the programme into Eastenders in Time and Space, and with Soap Opera being (for better or worse) the most popular form of TV drama, gained a lot of viewers who would not normally watch a sci-fi or fantasy programme.

Steven Moffat has a very different approach and, under his stewardship, Doctor Who is now imho better than it's ever been. However, he has removed many of RTD's soap elements from the show, which I think may have lost it a number of casual viewers. As long as the powers that be don't use this as an excuse to cancel the show, then I don't think the loss of casual viewers is any great loss at all.

Benjamin Sisko

03-05-2011

I just find it a shame that we can't just get along and enjoy the show. Instead, so-called "fans" long for the show to stay the same, with no progression, despite the fact that it's progression that has kept Who going all these years. What's worse is that they don't even acknowledge that the show 's current form has a lot of fans. It's just all rubbish to them...

It's sad really.

(Words of someone who liked 80s Who as well.

)

johnnysaucepn

03-05-2011

I really don't see how there are any fewer 'Soap Opera' elements than before. They're just woven into the plot more, rather than being separated out into scenes before or after the main action.

But regardless, all we can conclude from the overnight numbers is that 1 million (or whatever) fewer people watched it on Saturday night at 6pm. That doesn't mean that a million fewer people watched.

Lazlo Wolf

03-05-2011

SFX makes a very good point about lower overnights and higher catch-ups.

Also - everybody chill. It's not 1986. Doctor Who is the BBC's flagship family show. You'd be just as well worrying that they'll cancel EastEnders.

nebogipfel

03-05-2011

Even if the consolidated numbers show that 1 million fewer (consolidated) watched it than last week, it wouldn't necessarily "mean" anything in terms of terminal decline. We have seen it all before. 2008 for example. It seems that people who are not fond of the current style will want to leap on the overnights and any little thing they can to justify their belief that SM has set the current series on course for a huge decline in viewership. Rather than just saying "my belief is that this is so, but I will wait for actual evidence before claiming it has been proved" they are saying "Look! My belief is definitely true! I can already see this in the numbers!". Well, they are wrong. I will happily discuss this with them after ALL the relevent numbers for the entire series are known. If they are right I will have no problem with letting them have their moment.

There is the possibility of the "drip drip drip" from newspapers though. If someone's daily paper is constantly telling them "people don't like the show. you shouldn't like the show. the show is not as good as it was. why are you still watching? nobody else is. aren't you embarrassed to still be watching?" dig, dig, dig, dig, then maybe some people will go off it through the power of suggestion.

In other words:

"Don't you think she looks tired?"

However, tabloids are often a bit more canny than that. They often wait to see what their readers think then start to echo it. It remains to be seen how doggedly the Mail will stick to its line if the show, as with previous years, attracts those 7.5-9 million figures + high AIs each week.

Ibdolent

03-05-2011

Originally Posted by SpringheelJack:
“Was it the Daily Mail who also announced Bill Nighy as the Ninth Doctor when every other paper actually used the press release naming Eccleston...?”

Yes - I'd forgotten that! I don't think they even apologised for making such a stupid error!

Bobsir

03-05-2011

Quote:
“The Daily Moan is at it again. “’DOCTOR WHO SCARES OFF ANOTHER 1 MILLION VIEWERS” screams the headline, reporting the overnight viewing figures for “Day Of The Moon”. The article continues: “As Doctor Who begins its latest series with disappointing viewing figures some fans are asking if the plotlines are too scary and too complicated for its largely family audience..”

Well, yeah, some fans are – it’s easy enough to find them on Gallifrey Base, and hardly incisive investigative journalism. And, if you have an anti-BBC bias like The Mail, it suits your agenda to quote them rather than the majority of fans who are calmly and sensibly pointing to the fact that the consolidated figures (those that include people who recorded the show and watched it later) for “The Impossible Astronaut” increased the final viewing for that episode from an overnight of 6.5 million to a final figure of 8.86 million. That’s pretty much in line with the final consolidated viewing figures for every series opener bar the phenomenon that was “Rose”. There’s no reason to assume that “Day Of The Moon” won’t undergo a similar hefty time shift.

And yet some fans are still getting their knickers in a twist about overnights, partially this is because they fear headlines like the ones in The Mail. There really is no need to panic. The dip in overnights is not only offset by the time shift figures – for fans, it’s actually a good thing. No, really. And I don’t even have to scrabble around using facts and figures in a kind of “you can prove anything with statistics” scenario.

Let me explain.

When Russell T Davies brought the show back, he made it unashamedly populist. This, at the time, was A GOOD THING. It may not have been the dark, gritty Doctor Who many fans wanted but it made the show a huge public phenomenon again. It put the show on the map. It secured its future. And it gave us five years of rollicking great adventures.

But there was always that niggle in the back of the mind of some fans. Could the show be a little darker? Could the show be a little more complex? Surely the viewers wouldn’t leave in droves if the fans got more of the kind of show they’d like?

Then along comes Moffat. After a transitional first series which seemed to be a bit of a mongrel between RTD era Who and his own vision for the show, his second series has kicked off in uncompromising style. “The Impossible Astronaut” and “Day Of The Moon” are creepier, more complex and more grown up than New Who has ever been. Downright confusing some might say. But the audience appreciation index has shown that the general audience doesn’t seem to mind, while online fans have generally been giving the two-parter an ecstatic thumbs up.

And yet, the overnights are down. The sky is falling. Fans run around like headless chickens blaming everything from the weather to scheduling to robot hares.

Oh hang on. Wait a week. Add in the time-shifted figures and everything’s still rosy. Hurrah.

But that’s not the whole story. Think of this way.

Back in 2006, “The Girl In The Fireplace” got 7.4 million on overnights and a final consolidated figure of 7.9 million. That’s an increase of half a million on catch-up.

This week, “Day Of The Moon” got 5.4 million on overnights, and even the most conservative projections suggest it will get an extra 1.5 million viewers at least when the final figures come out. Let’s round that up slightly and say the final figure could be around 7 million. That’s not even factoring in that it could get easily half a million more on iPlayer (which didn’t exist in 2006). The figures aren’t, then, that much different.

But the real, crucial, fundamental thing to note here is that around two million extra people (maybe a little less, hopefully significantly more) are consciously deciding to watch the show. They’re not just catching it because it’s on, or because it follows another popular show, or because there’s nothing better on the other side. They’re making a deliberate choice. They want to watch it. That is significant.

And it’s also an audience that Moffat is cleverly courting with his approach to the show.

Think about it. All those dangling plot threads and unanswered questions. This is a Doctor Who for the Lost generation. It’s a Doctor Who designed to be discussed, picked over and analysed on the net. This is a Doctor Who that lives and breathes between episodes, buoyed up by discussion on message boards and fan sites. This is a Doctor Who that can afford to be more cerebral and confusing and not worry about overnight viewing figures.

This is a Doctor Who securing its future, in a television landscape where drama is being edged out of the overnight charts by “live” events, soaps and sport. Increasingly, drama will live or die by how many will commit themselves to watch it. This is a Doctor Who that can afford to be more “adult” and “inclusive” and “complex” because it doesn’t have to chase huge overnight figures by appealing to Aunt Maud and moody cousin Chardonnay who may just happen to have the telly on and nothing better to do.

Don’t get me wrong. I adored the RTD era, possibly a lot more than many fans. I loved its immediacy, its vibrancy, its energy and its ability to appeal on a lot of levels. But I am also loving Moffat’s vision for the show, and applaud the guy for not just giving us more of the same, and ingeniously retooling the show for a new era of television. Okay, as you’ll know from my reviews, I do worry that the Lost approach of questions, questions, questions and precious few answers could backfire if the eventual answers aren’t satisfying enough, but I’m more willing to go along for the ride, and speculate with the rest of you. But for all my doubts, I have to take my hat off to Moffat for having the balls to go in this direction. He’s proving there’s more than one way to make Doctor Who, and seems to be making a success of it.

Of course, you could argue that all this is down to naturally changing viewing patterns, and that if RTD was still in charge, his episodes would be getting bigger overnights and just as big time shifts. Possibly, possibly not. That we will never know. But what this change does mean, irrefutably, is that Moffat can do the show his way, and not have to worry so much about overnights. In other words, he can create a new Doctor Who more in line with what many fans always wanted (if the overwhelmingly positive votes on both our forum and on Gallifrey Base are anything to go by). So rejoice. Falling overnight viewing figures mean you’re getting what you want, and with no worries about cancellation because the catch-up figures are so fantastic. It’s good news all round.

Then again, if the consolidated figures come in next week and the show’s ratings are only bumped by quarter of a million, then clearly I’m talking bobbins. But somehow (he quickly checks iPlayer again and notes that “Day Of The Moon” is still in the top five) I don’t think that will be the case. And besides, 5.4 million viewers for a drama these days is phenomenal anyay without taking any of these other factors into account.

Oh, and the Daily Mail? Didn’t that recently record its lowest circulation in 10 years?

Read more: PURE GOLDER Why Doctor Who’s Falling Overnight Ratings Are A Good Thing http://www.sfx.co.uk/2011/05/03/pure...#ixzz1LIjsVRjQ”

http://www.sfx.co.uk/2011/05/03/pure...-a-good-thing/

Bobsir

03-05-2011

SFX article about ratings http://www.sfx.co.uk/2011/05/03/pure...-a-good-thing/

Deserana 12

03-05-2011

Great little article, thanks for the link.

mossy2103

03-05-2011

Yes, very good article with some interesting points that the naysayers should take heed of.

This bit is pretty incisive:

Quote:
“But the real, crucial, fundamental thing to note here is that around two million extra people (maybe a little less, hopefully significantly more) are consciously deciding to watch the show. They’re not just catching it because it’s on, or because it follows another popular show, or because there’s nothing better on the other side. They’re making a deliberate choice. They want to watch it. That is significant.”

molliepops

03-05-2011

So can I just get this straight as a long time fan of the show (watched my first when William Hartnell was the DR) I am not actually not a genuine fan because I don't like this incarnation of the DR or the very recent stories or that I will be considered sad and wanting the series to fail and end ??

alwatson

03-05-2011

You can be a fan, but wanting a series to end and fail because you dont like the characters/plotlines DOES make you a bad person.

Benjamin Sisko

03-05-2011

Originally Posted by molliepops:
“So can I just get this straight as a long time fan of the show (watched my first when William Hartnell was the DR) I am not actually not a genuine fan because I don't like this incarnation of the DR or the very recent stories or that I will be considered sad and wanting the series to fail and end ?? ”

If you're a long time fan, then surely you can find it within yourself to at least accept Matt as the Doctor. But if you want Matt's era to fail and end, then yes, that would make you rather sad. =/

andy1231

03-05-2011

I think any Dr Who fan who openly wants the series to fail is not really a fan. We all have our favourite eras, Doctors, producers etc but surely we watch it because we are fans. To want your favourite programme to fail because you don't like some element of it is a bit sad. I wasn't that keen on the McCoy era but I still watched it and was very sad when it was cancelled

molliepops

03-05-2011

I would like it to end in that I would like someone else to take the role and make it great again. I don't see that as being bad certainly doesn't make me a bad person

I have tried to accept Matt as the DR he just doesn't do it for me or I may add anyone else I know in the real world. It's only here in cyber space I personally see anyone who likes his portrayal.

Richie1001

03-05-2011

Originally Posted by molliepops:
“I would like it to end in that I would like someone else to take the role and make it great again. I don't see that as being bad certainly doesn't make me a bad person

I have tried to accept Matt as the DR he just doesn't do it for me or I may add anyone else I know in the real world. It's only here in cyber space I personally see anyone who likes his portrayal.”

What is it that's not working for you with him just out of interest?

I like him and I'm in the real world! I promise!!

Gogfumble

03-05-2011

That's purely anecdotal though and you can't base a shows success or otherwise on anecdotal evidence.

I know people in the real world, who aren't sci fi fans, didn't used to watch it but have started watching it since Matt and the Moff have taken over.

That's life.

molliepops

03-05-2011

I find him too manic and odd, Dr's have always been different which has been their charm but Matt plays it was such a gay abandon it just looks silly.

Benjamin Sisko

03-05-2011

*Cough*BAFTA nomination*Cough*

The majority of us think it's great. I mean, just because you and your friends don't like it doesn't mean it should end.

And as Andy above said, if you are a long time fan, then you should at least accept that millions of people love Matt's portrayal of the Doctor and if you really can't accept him, come back in a few years when the 12th Doctor comes in. But you shouldn't wish for his era to end, when millions don't want it to end.

molliepops

03-05-2011

Originally Posted by Gogfumble:
“That's purely anecdotal though and you can't base a shows success or otherwise on anecdotal evidence.

I know people in the real world, who aren't sci fi fans, didn't used to watch it but have started watching it since Matt and the Moff have taken over.

That's life.”

Did I say it was anything but anecdotal ? I am just trying to discover why a fan of the show cannot dislike one of the Dr's especially when the fan has loved/liked and followed each incarnation from the very first episode. If we cannot be honest about what works for us and what doesn't they may as well just pick poo on the screen and we will all sit round and say how wonderful. Much better to honestly discuss and give our opinions surely ?

molliepops

03-05-2011

Originally Posted by Benjamin Sisko:
“*Cough*BAFTA nomination*Cough*

The majority of us think it's great. I mean, just because you and your friends don't like it doesn't mean it should end.

And as Andy above said, if you are a long time fan, then you should at least accept that millions of people love Matt's portrayal of the Doctor and if you really can't accept him, come back in a few years when the 12th Doctor comes in. But you shouldn't wish for his era to end, when millions don't want it to end.”

Why is my opinion not as valid as yours though ?

lach doch mal

03-05-2011

Originally Posted by nebogipfel:
“The number of people watching the show seems to be about the same this year as previous years (8.86m for episode 1). And appreciation of both styles of show among those who do watch is high (AIs=88 and 87 - both mean "Excellent").

We don't yet know how many people watched episode 2. ("we" includes the OP and all newspapers).

Perhaps you could come back once we know how many people watched episode 2? You can then discuss the overnight figure in better context.

Also come back again at the end of the series to see if predictions of mass desertion are anywhere near the mark.

Headline writers like things that can have a dramatic spin applied to them. Doesn't make them right. And doesn't mean they've done any valid research into the supposed reasons behind alarmist assertions.

The way the current writer is doing things only really matters if final consolidated ratings, appreciation figures and surrounding fluff such as professional critical opinion plummets. And plummets dramatically and consistently. Some low overnights on "funny" weekends might be significant. Or they might not. I suspect not. But let's wait and see.”

What are you? Some type of logical radical or radical logician

.Why would anyone wait for facts and evidence, and for a official figures to be released? It's so much more fun to base everything on an article in the Daily Fail, which in turn is most likely based on opinions uttered on this forum, opinions which in turn are based on articles in the Daily Fail.

. It's all part of Moffats paradox agenda

Richie1001

03-05-2011

Originally Posted by molliepops:
“I find him too manic and odd, Dr's have always been different which has been their charm but Matt plays it was such a gay abandon it just looks silly.”

Do you like his dark side (as it were)? I think his ability to switch from the silliness to the darkness in the blink of an eye is one of this versions best qualities.

I like the oddness (no idea why! Just works for me) but I've also only really be watching DW since 2005 (seen some earlier eps but not loads). I'm not sure he's hugely more manic than DT was though, just without so much of the "depression?" DT's doc used to hold. Although I will go and watch S2 -4 just to remind myself soon.

Benjamin Sisko

03-05-2011

Originally Posted by molliepops:
“Why is my opinion not as valid as yours though ?”

Because if you watched DW from the start, you should know that it changes and modifies itself to stop itself from becoming stale. Wanting it to stay in the format established by RTD would eventually cause the show to become stale. Something DW has never done.

Wanting Matt to go and RTD to "make DW great again" is not cool, and would likely damage the show severely in the long run.

molliepops

03-05-2011

Originally Posted by Benjamin Sisko:
“Because if you watched DW from the start, you should know that it changes and modifies itself to stop itself from becoming stale. Wanting it to stay in the format established by RTD would eventually cause the show to become stale. Something DW has never done.

Wanting Matt to go and RTD to "make DW great again" is not cool, and would likely damage the show severely in the long run. ”

Let me take a jump into star trek as I see your name may indicate you are a fan. I loved star trek voyager every single episode and detested deep space nine every single episode - I still consider myself a fan as I loved all series except DS9 and all the fans who hated voyager still are fans they just didn't like that series.

I can't see why Dr Who is any different fans don't have to love every episode or series we can have different likes and dislikes.

BTW I have never claimed to be cool I am a woman of a certain age and deeply uncool I am sure. I just know what I like and what I dislike.

And I loved the depressed side of Christopher Ecclestones performances he made the Dr a more rounded person and explained some of the questions I had from all the other series I had watched.

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