I don't mean to be, but like I say, I think you're overplaying your card. I take it you're talking about betting rather than theatre criticism


I think it's a little bit unfair to suggest I 'distorted' the quote. I didn't look it up and unsurprisingly, I didn't remember it with 100 per cent accuracy, but I don't think my version was that different to what Andrew actually said. And I can't see any difference in the implication of his version and my version.


Again, like I say, I watched Maria, I watched Joseph, I've been fascinated by Andrew's face throughout. Having watched it for so long, I think some of his expressions can be misleading. I wouldn't read that much into it, personally, but obviously, that's just me.

Basically, I think you're being a bit selective in terms of the evidence you're taking on board. While Andrew has been complimentary to Niamh, he has heaped far more outlandish praise on Jessie, Rachel and Samantha. I think that your suggestion, that Andrew rates Niamh highest of all is a bit of a leap. But that's just my opinion. And ultimately, it doesn't matter what Andrew thinks anyway, because the decision belongs to the public. At the moment, I think the competition is wide open.

Personally I cannot see why the fact that Naimh is a product of the Elaine Paige school should be an argument in favour of her winning the Nancy role - and I certainly don't think ALW's ties with the establishment should have any bearing on her success or failure to secure the part.

If she wins it should be because she is the best candidate - not because of who she knows and which stage school she attended.


Not sure in which aspect of theatre you make your living - but you could be a highly acclaimed critic of Musical Theatre and some of us would still use our own judgement to decide who we would prefer to see play the part of Nancy.

For some that will be Niamh - for others it will be someone else.

niamh is an average singer with absolutely no stage presence who can barely dance..its laughable shes in the final cut over nancy nancy and even more laughable some people are buying into the judges ridicolous praise of this girl.i dont blame niamh herself for this btw..but because of the panels stupid hype of her i will vote for anyone before her..i wont be brainwashed into who to vote for..especially by muppets like JB and DVO.

Hmm, I don't think Niamh is that hyped up among the judges - I think the worst is their gushing over Rachel, who I thought was completely OTT on Saturday. I'm not a particular fan of Niamh either (she has an average voice imo) but I can't deny that she is pretty and has stage presence, especially for a 17 year old.

yes rachels awful.".im not pretty,i never get cast as the pretty girl"..nothing like playing your looks down to get the female vote is there...another one with absolutely nothing to offer as nancy.whereas ashley has everything and gets virtually no praise...

The judges are definitely obsessed with Rachel. I think they see something they like in Niamh but I really don't see her as Nancy in a million years. Her voice doesn't have the depth that the part needs. That said, I'd rather she won than the ghastly overacting Rachel.

I didn't like Nancy Nancy at all for Nancy (good grief how many Nancys?!) - doesn't suit her voice at all. Much more of an Eponine.

I don't get the "love" for Niamh either, she is pretty and talented but she just isn't Nancy.
She needs to put on at least a stone in weight as well, she is far too skinny. Those skimpy dresses which show off her too thin arms don't do her any favours either

Niamh has a good voice and a good look - for a pop singer. I can't see her as Nancy in a million years. Even if Dickens's Nancy was meant to be about the same age as Niamh, she'd had a hard life and would not have looked like Niamh. Whoever plays Nancy, whatever her actual age, must look and sound as if she has known suffering, and Niamh just doesn't (nor do most of the others, for that matter). If Niamh gets a pop career out of this, I suspect she will be quite happy.

Niamh is talented (though not as much as the panel make out) and would be well suited to the West End in other roles but not as Nancy

She is a bit too wet to play Nancy IMO

Well put!

Dare I say this as I am not racially prejudiced but I just don't see Keisha as being Nancy because of her colour. I don't think when Charles Dickens wrote Oliver Nancy was meant to be black. I know there were slaves around at that time but I just don't think that was what he had in mind.

There were quite a few black people living in London in Victorian times. They were not slaves but were free and worked in various different jobs. Nancy could have been black

Nancy could indeed have been black - the sketches that were in the original novel were of a short, dumpy white girl but there would have been black people in London at the time. If you are going to stick that rigidly to the original novel, none of the girls are the right physical fit as we don't have a short, dumpy white girl (that would be me!).

Oliver is more of a problem in my mind. If you have a black Oliver you have to have a black Mr Brownlow (his grandfather) and I don't think there would have been black people amongst the upper classes at this time. I may be completely wrong.

Of course you can still suspend disbelief and just go with it. I did West Side Story with a black Riff and as the whole show is about racial hatred with Riff's gang as the white boys beating up the minorities, that is more challenging for the audience but worked really well as our Riff was great.

Niamh is wet and skinny? Sound reasons why she should not play Nancy, eh.

I'm pretty sure that the film versions of a mature Nancy have conditioned people to also expect a fuller figured Nancy, but in reality in the Dickens book, Nancy was very young/waif-like and was not as well fed as an average 21st century woman.

Denise VO came up with the reason ALW is so struck on Niamh and it is because she reminds them of Bernadette Peters, one of the greatest Broadway stage actresses ever. Bernadette appeared (having taken over the role from Sarah Brightman) in ALW's creation, Song and Dance. This is quite a compliment to Niamh at the tender age of 17 and it's not just (vaguely) in looks they are drawing the similarity to. Niamh's singing has a pitch that displays both vulnerability and passion, much like Ms Peters displays. They are simply "moved" when she sings.

Whether or not Niamh can move the audience at home, we will see and hear over the next few weeks but for now, she is certainly capable of reproducing all the facets of Nancy that ALW is looking for.

I've watched that clip at ALW's house a few times and there is really no way of knowing, in my opinion, who he is referring to as 'potentially world class'. Personally, I thought Niamh over-did that audition a tad and my first instinct was that ALW was referring to Samantha.

But, like I say, there's no way of knowing who he was talking about unless he mentions it again.

It was JB who picked Samantha as his least favourite on Saturday, and he was clearly in the minority in that opinion - compared with ALW and the rest of the panel, as well as the audience who voted her through. ALW was quite clear in his disagreement with JB and made that statement which you have mentioned.

Oh and if we're going to be really picky, he actually said "of the girls I have seen tonight, you have the makings of a real Nancy in theatre terms".

I don't know exactly how common we'd be talking, but William Murray's great niece was of mixed race - if one can suspend belief that a black Oliver could have been mixed race on the other side to Brownlow, then I think that'd be enough?

I agree - just said pretty much the same as you on the Niamh appreciation thread.

Just to add to it though - Jessie's acting wasnt slammed, they just said it needed work - which stands to reason as shes received very little training in comparison to the other girls who impressed in this task (i.e. fran, ashley, sarah, etc) who have all had years of acting lessons!

To get back to the the point of this thread though - Keisha just isnt Nancy for me - just cant see any warmth in her which is a huge part of the role. Also when she tried to act "fun loving and flirty" at the weekend, it came across more like "crazed psychotic axe murderer"

I have already detailed a frame by frame analysis of "that clip" in the other thread, so I wont repeat it. I do think Samantha has a great voice and I can see why ALW could see a potential Nancy (potential as in makings of). I do not believe that Barrowmans comments were genuine and suspect they were scripted, as was his picking Sam out as one of the worst last week. His face in the flashback, whilst ALW spoke didn't ring true.

I do think Samantha can win the role if she can introduce slightly more expression into her face.

"Personally I cannot see why the fact that Naimh is a product of the Elaine Paige school should be an argument in favour of her winning the Nancy role - and I certainly don't think ALW's ties with the establishment should have any bearing on her success or failure to secure the part."

Niamh is NOT part of, and never has been involved in an 'Elaine Paige stage school'. She was involved inMT4Uth (www.mt4uth.com), a Northern Irish youth group whose patron is Elaine Paige. Elaine Paige herself however has never tutored Niamh, unfortunately the truth within this has been misconstrued. Elaine Paige is taking vocal workshops with a select few members of MT4Uth in the summer, and they auditioned their members who wanted the chance to have this opportunity - as a result, Niamh was one of the members picked.

I hope that clears things up.

For me Tara isn't Nancy at this stage in the competition. She strikes me more as... well to be honest I'm not really sure at the moment, but I just don't think she has any of the qualities the judges have talked about wanting in a Nancy.

yes - thanks for the explanation I assumed the info. posted by desmagee to be informed. No intention of being sarcastic to desmagee - we can all be guilty of misinterpreting facts now and again.

There was no intention on my part to mislead anyone. I said "Naimh is a product of the Elaine Paige school" (ie the school of which Elaine Paige is a patron) which is what anyone else can read on her profile page. Apologies if anyone read more into my comment.

Do you know I noticed that the profile things were a bit off on the BBC website, I saw a while ago on Niamh's page that it said that through MT4Uth she'd got a scholarship to Arts Ed, when in fact the truth was that actually when she was younger through MT4Uth she got a funded place on Arts Ed Easter school... I wonder how many of the other profiles are skewed...

Sarah and Keisha

I don't imagine there were many chubby 17 year olds in the London slums? No crisps, soft drinks or chocolate, few calories and an active life........The Babs Windsor Family Tree show repeated tonight showed photos of East End girls of about the right age and period and they were thinner than Posh.

The too thin comment was a general one not specifically aimed at "Nancy" - Niamh looks almost anorexic, and given the well known fact that TV makes you look fatter than you are, the dresses they have given her to wear in both shows don't make her look good - just emphasise her thin ness.

No doubt that she is very pretty and can sing like an angel