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Need a cheap 30gig MP3 player that's NOT an iPod!
SuperUnleaded
05-05-2008
(No, the undercooked chicken didn't kill me after all – http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=789241 )


Anyway, I have a set of very specific requirements for an MP3 player that I'll need solely for music playback; and I need one quickly within 3 weeks before I head off overseas...

—It must not be an iPod. I simply don't want one.
—30GB is non-negotiable. That's the bare minimum I need.
—I do not need video playback or massive, fancy LCD screens. Just to see Artist>Album>Track>Song will be enough.
—It needs to be plug-and-play for WinXP via USB 2.0, so that I can just shove my entire CD collection onto it with ease and speed.
—Playlists are a must. I have a special 'driving music' one which I'll need for a trip.
—Price cannot exceed £150. Ideally even under £100 would be nice, but somehow I think that's pushing it with what with the amount of disk space I'm asking for.
—Obviously it needs to be reliable, because I won't be in any position to replace or fix it whilst I'm away.


So basically it does not need to look good, feel 'sleek' or have any extra bells and whistles whatsoever. Basic, basic, BASIC. I don't care how old the model is, I just urgently need it for playback during a 2-week trip (albeit with the above criteria met). Help and stuff?
Fromez
06-05-2008
Kind of a difficult one, iPods are dominating the mp3 player scene, but I assume you've made playlists in WMP and so need a compatible player.

There are a few Creative Zen Vision M's on Amazon new for around £130 if you look closely, but I've no idea whether they take WMP playlists or not. I also saw a nice Archos 604 30gb for £120, but apparently that only imports Winamp playlists.

Personally, I find iPods pretty horrible, despite having a Touch. I much prefer my Microsoft Zune which unfortunately hasn't launched here yet. The Zune has to use its own software, and calls its playlists .zpl (while Windows Media Player calls them .wpl). However, WMP playlists can be imported into the Zune software by simply making a copy of it and renaming it with .zpl at the end.

Here's two Zunes I found on ebay. The first one is cheaper but sold by an American seller, so you'd have to take delivery time into account. The second one is sold by a UK seller but is £15 more expensive than the price you quote above. You'd also have to buy a USB charger for it (I use an iPod plug). Then again, what you're looking for is quite a tall order - e.g. after checking out Amazon and advancedmp3players.co.uk, I couldn't find a single current model that met your criteria and price... it's quite bizarre, companies like Philips whose 30gb player I had in the past seems to have abandoned HD players in favour of lower space flash players, which makes iPod's competition pretty thin.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MICROSOFT-ZUNE...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Microsoft-Zune...QQcmdZViewItem
sancheeez
06-05-2008
I don't think you'll find anything that meets what you want, within your budget. (except an iPod)

If you can find one, there are a few discontinued models that come close:

Toshiba Gigabeats (not sure if they're drag and drop though. The second gen versions were supposed to be pretty good)
Creative Vision:M
Creative Zen (early models - again, not drag and drop though and not sure on playlists either)
Cowon X5 30gb (Not sure how well it handles playlists though, hard to find and if you do find one, not sure it'd be under £150)
stud u like
06-05-2008
Microsoft Zune. I bought a 30gb one for 96 pounds.
sancheeez
06-05-2008
I meant to put the Zune in the list as well.

No drag and drop on the Zune though is there?
Fromez
06-05-2008
Originally Posted by sancheeez:
“I meant to put the Zune in the list as well.

No drag and drop on the Zune though is there?”

Nope, but it's easy enough to press Ctrl and A when you have the software open, and synch everything.
sancheeez
06-05-2008
Originally Posted by Fromez:
“Nope, but it's easy enough to press Ctrl and A when you have the software open, and synch everything.”

Which is all well and good but it depends how the OP intends to use the device.

No drag and drop (and ability to play such files .... just storage doesn't cut it) is a deal breaker for me. I want to be able to plug my player into any PC I want (don't care about Macs .... no-one I know has one) and add/remove (and then play) whatever I like using as generic a cable as possible (mini USB in my case).

One of the main reasons I'll never touch an iPod is the closed system they use. It simply isn't flexible enough for me. Maybe the OP is the same?

(PS ..... to the OP .... Cowon players will do most of what you want. They are a bit weak on playlist support - not sure about newer models here - but you won't get 30gb for less than £150 unless you manage to find an old X5 30gb)
Staunchy
06-05-2008
I can't recommend a player as prices change quite often but here are some sites that may help.
www.anythingbutipod.com is not a bad site for guidance if you click "Compare" at the top you can select the features required and it gives you a list of players that reach that criteria. The same can be done with www.advancedmp3players.co.uk (MP3 Matchmaker at the top).
In addition there's a new Sony player out this month so the older models may drop in price.
Fromez
06-05-2008
Originally Posted by sancheeez:
“Which is all well and good but it depends how the OP intends to use the device.

No drag and drop (and ability to play such files .... just storage doesn't cut it) is a deal breaker for me. I want to be able to plug my player into any PC I want (don't care about Macs .... no-one I know has one) and add/remove (and then play) whatever I like using as generic a cable as possible (mini USB in my case).

One of the main reasons I'll never touch an iPod is the closed system they use. It simply isn't flexible enough for me. Maybe the OP is the same?

(PS ..... to the OP .... Cowon players will do most of what you want. They are a bit weak on playlist support - not sure about newer models here - but you won't get 30gb for less than £150 unless you manage to find an old X5 30gb)”

True, it does depend on whether the OP wants a device just for music (or documents as well), whether he wants to be able to plug it into multiple computers etc. But can't second guess that. If he'd stipulated a higher price, I would've recommended a Creative flash 32gb which can be had for around £180. One thing is probable though, he may have to compromise on either feature or price.

On the other things you raise, I agree about having the freedom to do what you want easily with your mp3 player. The iPod is the worst of the bunch and the Zune is actually a bit better. No, you can't use it as storage for other documents (unless you hack it), but you can connect it to other PCs. If you quickly install the Zune software on a friend's computer (or your other PCs) you can transfer music to and from the Zune, something which the iPod can't because it locks you to ONE computer.

So yes, it isn't as flexible as even I'd like, but it does what it's supposed to i.e. play great looking video and great sounding music, and allows me the flexibility I need for those two things. Personally, I have much bigger gripes about music downloads (and vendettas against piracy rather than tackling DRM issues) than mp3 players.
Fromez
06-05-2008
Originally Posted by Staunchy:
“I can't recommend a player as prices change quite often but here are some sites that may help.
www.anythingbutipod.com”

AWESOME! There's serendipity for you - I click on that link and the headline is about a Zune firmware update bonanza I didn't know about. Thanks! (I'll stop going on about them now, unless the OP has any further interest about them).
Staunchy
06-05-2008
Glad to have helped someone
TheBigM
06-05-2008
Are you looking at second-hand too? Some of the old Archos players would meet your need and be cheap enough.
SuperUnleaded
06-05-2008
Currently at work, but will look into all the above options later this evening! Many thanks so far. Will post when I've had a good gander.
joshua321
06-05-2008
By the time players became plug and play with windows, they mostly also got photo/video capability, meaning it's going to be hard to find exactly what you're after.

Being really strict about all your criteria, a Creative Zen Touch 40GB (very old model and not widely stocked) seems a way to go:

http://www.egears.co.uk/pd_creative_labs.cfm

You want to make sure you're getting the 40GB model (does exist) as advertised, as it seems to say 20GB on the specs list.

To make the Zen Touch 'drag and drop' / 'plug and play' with windows you will however have to download and install onto the player the 'plays for sure' firmware listed here as soon as you take it out of the box:

http://uk.europe.creative.com/suppor...ct=0&x=20&y=20

This shouldn't be a big deal (download firmware, plug in player, run firmware, upgrade player).

I had a Zen Touch - they are sturdy, reliable, 24 hours of battery life, no bells or whistles and great sound.
sancheeez
06-05-2008
^^^ Thats old Zen model I was thinking of!

Recently put a new HDD in one for a friend.

Like you say, simple and sturdy and they just use standard laptop drives so easy to upgrade if you want to.

His wan't drag'n'drop (although easy to sync with MediaMonkey) .... wasn't aware you could update the firemware so it was.

You can still pick them up on ebay for under £100 in good nick. For the money, it's probably about as close to the OP's spec as you're gonna get.
SuperUnleaded
07-05-2008
Apologies for the rather late return, but there's a good change of plan! A diamond friend of mine is letting me borrow his laptop for the duration of my trip, which means I can go lower with my giggage because the music is all on the laptop and I'd only need a certain amount of it per day.

Basically, I now need an 8-10GB player with the same specs above; including drag-and-drop and Winamp playlists only – I use no other media player.

I'm not willing to go second-hand, and I'm also not willing to go on eBay because I can only use postal orders and cheques as payment (hence, too slow and no concrete guarantees).

If it must come with video, so be it – but now my price has dropped as well. I'd cry if I had to pay any more than £100 or even £70 on an 8/10gigger. What are my chances, lads?

Again, many thanks for all the help past and future.
joshua321
07-05-2008
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-ZEN...0194665&sr=8-1

(adding 8GB SD card will give 16 GB, not sure how well it will interface with onboard library though), or:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-NWZA818...0194591&sr=1-1

I think anything cheaper than these is pushing it a bit for 8GB.
PowerJC
07-05-2008
I know you don't want an ipod, but the classic at £150 for 80gb is good value that would be hard to get anywhere else.
For 8gb player I would say the creative zen which is about £90-100.
SuperUnleaded
09-05-2008
Well, in the end I decided to go for the Creative Zen M (4GB version) from Amazon. From the reviews it's had, I think I've made a good choice. The expandability via SD/SDHC was definite plus point for me, since my TZ3 digicam uses those and I always have a card reader handy to avoid USB cables.

In the end, hopefully it'll do a good job for my trip! I would just like to thank everyone for all the input I got on here, as well. Very much appreciated.
joshua321
09-05-2008
You're welcome

Is this the one you purchased?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-ZEN...0194665&sr=8-1

Seems like a good choice - I have its previous incarnation. If you have time maybe you could let us know how you get on with it and any niggles you encountered?
SuperUnleaded
10-05-2008
Yip, that's the one! I opted for the free delivery so as to save a bit of dosh, so I can't wait to give it a spin next week. I feel relieved to have been able to 'downgrade' all the way from 30GB to 4GB, since I'll have the laptop with me. Otherwise, I would've been stuffed...
happyhatter
11-05-2008
I was going to suggest a creative zen vision m. i've got one and its the dogs doo-dahs.
its really easy to use and is so much better than an ipod.
just drag and drop to transfer audio/video/data files, it has a f.m radio also , i reckon you'll end up getting one after you've had a play with you new creative player.
SuperUnleaded
15-05-2008
Well, so far so good. I'm just giving it a first proper spin today at work (so, walking around with earphones the whole time!), and no real complaints yet. It's a bit weird charging the battery via my PC, but since that's where the music comes from it's no big deal.

The menus are a bit fiddly and cumbersome at times when I just want to click and play, and I would've ideally wanted separate Play/Stop buttons instead of just the single one that pauses it with a second press... But I can live with it, since I'm only using it for travels.

Sound quality is great, too (but since I've never owned a decent sound system in my life, that's only a grain-of-salt opinion!), so this'll make for some great driving music in a taxi.
Helbrown
15-05-2008
Does anyone know whether Creative is working on a new high capacity model?

I've got a 60GB Vision M which I love, and I am sorry it's not available any more.
joshua321
18-05-2008
Originally Posted by SuperUnleaded:
“The menus are a bit fiddly and cumbersome at times when I just want to click and play, and I would've ideally wanted separate Play/Stop buttons instead of just the single one that pauses it with a second press... But I can live with it, since I'm only using it for travels.”

A handy tip is that you can always just press the play button when a menu item is highlighted and it'll start playing. For example if you are in play mode > shuffle, and you go to genres > classical and then just hit play, it will start playing all the tracks you've tagged as classical in random order.

I think a 'stop' button is a thing of the past as far as mp3 players are concerned, but I think you can stop the track, lose your place in it and then restart it later by pressing the pause button quickly followed by the skip back/RW button.
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