I think people might be mistaking arrogance for frustration - just a thought. 
This show has spoiled Jessie...
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Originally Posted by BuddyBontheNet:
“I think people might be mistaking arrogance for frustration - just a thought.”
“I think people might be mistaking arrogance for frustration - just a thought.
”
And I think we're in danger of straying off topic
I think Jessies confidence is getting chipped away and it wont do her any good to keep in the show. She needs to get to an acting school so that she can get the coaching/teaching she needs. If she loses her confidence she might not get it back.
There are roo many things she needs to fix and she does not have the time to do it on this show.....
There are roo many things she needs to fix and she does not have the time to do it on this show.....
Not sure about this.
(1) The biggest confidence boost would be winning.
(2) In my meagre opinion, she was closest to the Nancy requirement at the beginning: without necessarily needing to develop, that is.
The fact that Jodie, say, has been consistent and that Sam has developed in keeping with her overall musical potential doesn't automatically imply that Jessie has fallen away.
MmM
(1) The biggest confidence boost would be winning.
(2) In my meagre opinion, she was closest to the Nancy requirement at the beginning: without necessarily needing to develop, that is.
The fact that Jodie, say, has been consistent and that Sam has developed in keeping with her overall musical potential doesn't automatically imply that Jessie has fallen away.
MmM
Jessie is not taking on board the things the panel says.....or does it for one week and forgets it the next. Winning wont help her at this time as the critics would slaughter her much more than on this show. She will be good in a few years given the right training and coaching. She just has too many things to fix.
Sam, I dont see much changed in Sam, in fact she is still singing off tune. I think the panel are doing this girl no favours be pretending her performances are faultless. She is a lovely looking girl, but she has no maternal look about her no vulnerability about her. She comes over as cold and too focused, not a team player. IMO
Sam, I dont see much changed in Sam, in fact she is still singing off tune. I think the panel are doing this girl no favours be pretending her performances are faultless. She is a lovely looking girl, but she has no maternal look about her no vulnerability about her. She comes over as cold and too focused, not a team player. IMO
Originally Posted by CASPER1066:
“Jessie is not taking on board the things the panel says.....or does it for one week and forgets it the next. Winning wont help her at this time as the critics would slaughter her much more than on this show. She will be good in a few years given the right training and coaching. She just has too many things to fix.
Sam, I dont see much changed in Sam, in fact she is still singing off tune. I think the panel are doing this girl no favours be pretending her performances are faultless. She is a lovely looking girl, but she has no maternal look about her no vulnerability about her. She comes over as cold and too focused, not a team player. IMO”
“Jessie is not taking on board the things the panel says.....or does it for one week and forgets it the next. Winning wont help her at this time as the critics would slaughter her much more than on this show. She will be good in a few years given the right training and coaching. She just has too many things to fix.
Sam, I dont see much changed in Sam, in fact she is still singing off tune. I think the panel are doing this girl no favours be pretending her performances are faultless. She is a lovely looking girl, but she has no maternal look about her no vulnerability about her. She comes over as cold and too focused, not a team player. IMO”
The panel comments though range from the impossible to the contradictory. Be yourself one week - walk, talk, act differently the next week.
Its also not clear that the show is set up to allow anyone to develop. the vocal coaches seem incapable of teaching out glaring faults that make it to the weekly performance - let alone optimising the perfromances. There's also too much to learn - 5 new songs a week- to realistically work on one feature of her performance - let alone the 4 or 5 people want her to work on the week when they do think she needs to work on them.
Quote:
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“
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“The panel comments though range from the impossible to the contradictory. Be yourself one week - walk, talk, act differently the next week.
Its also not clear that the show is set up to allow anyone to develop. the vocal coaches seem incapable of teaching out glaring faults that make it to the weekly performance - let alone optimising the perfromances. There's also too much to learn - 5 new songs a week- to realistically work on one feature of her performance - let alone the 4 or 5 people want her to work on the week when they do think she needs to work on them.”
”
“The panel comments though range from the impossible to the contradictory. Be yourself one week - walk, talk, act differently the next week.
Its also not clear that the show is set up to allow anyone to develop. the vocal coaches seem incapable of teaching out glaring faults that make it to the weekly performance - let alone optimising the perfromances. There's also too much to learn - 5 new songs a week- to realistically work on one feature of her performance - let alone the 4 or 5 people want her to work on the week when they do think she needs to work on them.”
I agree with everything you have said.....but the critics wont care,....if she walks or acts on stage like she does not....poor girl will get hammered by the critics....and your right...the show does not seem to be set up for training...more like polishing.....her skill set requires alot more.
If Jessie wins I think by the time she walks on stage as Nancy she will have the role nailed down and everyone will love her.
The things she gets pulled up over on IDA won't matter by then or will have had the rough edges smoothed over - you don't wear 4 inch heels as Nancy!
The things she gets pulled up over on IDA won't matter by then or will have had the rough edges smoothed over - you don't wear 4 inch heels as Nancy!
Originally Posted by BuddyBontheNet:
“If Jessie wins I think by the time she walks on stage as Nancy she will have the role nailed down and everyone will love her.
The things she gets pulled up over on IDA won't matter by then or will have had the rough edges smoothed over - you don't wear 4 inch heels as Nancy!”
“If Jessie wins I think by the time she walks on stage as Nancy she will have the role nailed down and everyone will love her.
The things she gets pulled up over on IDA won't matter by then or will have had the rough edges smoothed over - you don't wear 4 inch heels as Nancy!”
Exactly!
And Nancy does not need to be the epitome of grace and elegance. It's Jessies rough-around-the-edges-ness that will suit the role.
My personal opinion is that of the girls left, Jessie, at her best, has the most "star quality." She is also the one with most weaknesses. At the beginning of the show, Jess had a spark that meant that I didn't notice this weaknesses as much or I could gloss over them. However, as the weeks have progressed, Jessie's confidence has faltered, and she has lost her spark, which means that I notice her weaknesses all the more. And to be honest, despite her good vocal ability and star quality, I can completely understand why she would have been rejected from drama school as she is weak in both acting and dancing/performing.
I'm not sure if Jessie weaknesses can be ironed out. However, unless she gets some clear direction, we're never going to know. They really do need someone on the panel who has experience at coaching performers, and so can not only tell the girls what they could improve on, but also how to go about doing it.
At the moment, she is probably the most unreliable girl. At her best, she could be amazing, but similarly she is also the girl most likely to fall flat on her face if she can't work on her weakenesses.
I'm not sure if Jessie weaknesses can be ironed out. However, unless she gets some clear direction, we're never going to know. They really do need someone on the panel who has experience at coaching performers, and so can not only tell the girls what they could improve on, but also how to go about doing it.
At the moment, she is probably the most unreliable girl. At her best, she could be amazing, but similarly she is also the girl most likely to fall flat on her face if she can't work on her weakenesses.
I think that alot of people's perceptions of Jessie's weaknesses are from the judges comments. People think she is a weak actress - I have never found her to be a bad actress and in some of the acting tasks she has excelled.
She is considered a bad mover. Granted I think she finds sexy/elegant hard but in group numbers she is always spot on. She was perfect in 'wash that man right out of my hair'.
I think the only doubt about Jessie is her accent.....and I think she can master that....it seems fine when she is singing and some more coaching should do the trick.
She is considered a bad mover. Granted I think she finds sexy/elegant hard but in group numbers she is always spot on. She was perfect in 'wash that man right out of my hair'.
I think the only doubt about Jessie is her accent.....and I think she can master that....it seems fine when she is singing and some more coaching should do the trick.
Originally Posted by CASPER1066:
“Maybe she is being told to change or improve these things and not getting the support or time to do it.........no point in telling something to do somthing if they dont know how too. I think they are asking too much of Jessie and in too short a time. She needs a few years in acting school and Im sure ALW will make sure she is fine.”
“Maybe she is being told to change or improve these things and not getting the support or time to do it.........no point in telling something to do somthing if they dont know how too. I think they are asking too much of Jessie and in too short a time. She needs a few years in acting school and Im sure ALW will make sure she is fine.”
I agree, how can she possibly learn new skills in such a short time. Most drama school courses are for three years. 17/18 is still quite young to go to drama school - I know many 17/18 years who have been rejected at that age because they don't have life experience. I am sure with all this exposure Jessie would be able to get into a decent drama school now.
Originally Posted by Flamethrower100:
“I think that Maybe she should have chosen a different song last week. Although I liked it. I don't think that it was very suited to her.
I agree that she has gone down hill, to no fault of her own. The comments that she gets are not very helpfull. If someone can't dance naturaly then they need lessons that is a fact, she can'treally learn to be a better dancer on her own. With the acting I think it's just nervs, I think she needs to loosen up as she always looks really worried.
Anyway in my oppinion Nancy is no lady. She's a prossie that's been theiving on the streets since she was five. I'm not sure if dancing is that important.
Jodie or Jessie to win, maybe Sam. Not so keen on Rachel.”
“I think that Maybe she should have chosen a different song last week. Although I liked it. I don't think that it was very suited to her.
I agree that she has gone down hill, to no fault of her own. The comments that she gets are not very helpfull. If someone can't dance naturaly then they need lessons that is a fact, she can'treally learn to be a better dancer on her own. With the acting I think it's just nervs, I think she needs to loosen up as she always looks really worried.
Anyway in my oppinion Nancy is no lady. She's a prossie that's been theiving on the streets since she was five. I'm not sure if dancing is that important.
Jodie or Jessie to win, maybe Sam. Not so keen on Rachel.”
You say dancing may not be important but movement is and this she would be taught at drama school. I noticed how her breath control went in the group number with the boys last week. I have friends who were trained singers who appeared regularly in the 80's in the West End who suddenly couldn't find work in musicals because they didn't have dance/movement skills.
Originally Posted by geogchick:
“I think that alot of people's perceptions of Jessie's weaknesses are from the judges comments. People think she is a weak actress - I have never found her to be a bad actress and in some of the acting tasks she has excelled.
She is considered a bad mover. Granted I think she finds sexy/elegant hard but in group numbers she is always spot on. She was perfect in 'wash that man right out of my hair'.
I think the only doubt about Jessie is her accent.....and I think she can master that....it seems fine when she is singing and some more coaching should do the trick.”
“I think that alot of people's perceptions of Jessie's weaknesses are from the judges comments. People think she is a weak actress - I have never found her to be a bad actress and in some of the acting tasks she has excelled.
She is considered a bad mover. Granted I think she finds sexy/elegant hard but in group numbers she is always spot on. She was perfect in 'wash that man right out of my hair'.
I think the only doubt about Jessie is her accent.....and I think she can master that....it seems fine when she is singing and some more coaching should do the trick.”
I felt Jessie overacted in that number and I do not like her facial mannerisms.
She needs to go to drama school from here and not on to a West End stage. She was my favourite in the audition process and I am sure that one day she will be a star but not at this moment in time.
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I think we are doing an injustice to Jessie to allow her to continue performing they way she has been. I would say the panel are being PC about her stage movement and grace. She needs a few years training still. Jessie can do songs in her range if she doesnt have to move. Thats going to limit her big time. Her confidence is all ready rocked and her voice is not starting to quiver. Lets not pick the girl apart........get her help
Quote:
“QUOTE=geogchick;23889803]I think that alot of people's perceptions of Jessie's weaknesses are from the judges comments. People think she is a weak actress - I have never found her to be a bad actress and in some of the acting tasks she has excelled.
She is considered a bad mover. Granted I think she finds sexy/elegant hard but in group numbers she is always spot on. She was perfect in 'wash that man right out of my hair'.
I think the only doubt about Jessie is her accent.....and I think she can master that....it seems fine when she is singing and some more coaching should do the trick.”
“QUOTE=geogchick;23889803]I think that alot of people's perceptions of Jessie's weaknesses are from the judges comments. People think she is a weak actress - I have never found her to be a bad actress and in some of the acting tasks she has excelled.
She is considered a bad mover. Granted I think she finds sexy/elegant hard but in group numbers she is always spot on. She was perfect in 'wash that man right out of my hair'.
I think the only doubt about Jessie is her accent.....and I think she can master that....it seems fine when she is singing and some more coaching should do the trick.”
[/quote]
I think we are doing an injustice to Jessie to allow her to continue performing they way she has been. I would say the panel are being PC about her stage movement and grace. She needs a few years training still. Jessie can do songs in her range if she doesnt have to move. Thats going to limit her big time. Her confidence is all ready rocked and her voice is not starting to quiver. Lets not pick the girl apart........get her help
Originally Posted by loobyloo11:
“I agree, how can she possibly learn new skills in such a short time. Most drama school courses are for three years. 17/18 is still quite young to go to drama school - I know many 17/18 years who have been rejected at that age because they don't have life experience. I am sure with all this exposure Jessie would be able to get into a decent drama school now.
”
“I agree, how can she possibly learn new skills in such a short time. Most drama school courses are for three years. 17/18 is still quite young to go to drama school - I know many 17/18 years who have been rejected at that age because they don't have life experience. I am sure with all this exposure Jessie would be able to get into a decent drama school now.
”
you know i am of two minds of this. Drama schools also all have different ways of teaching and they actually can leave you with bad habits. one of the greats Uta Hagen (brilliant brilliant woman and actor) has one key.. "DON"T ACT" she works with the greats and even stops them in mid class to say "stop acting"
as for learning skills in a short time, absoluely possible without a doubt. if you have talent and are natural it is achievable. now MT is a little different, but it still should not look "acted" Do you know how many talented actors had never taken one class in their life? then after they got a few breaks they took up some workshops here and there to hone their craft. I guess it is like the old debate is it better to have a degree or have practical knowledge.
Noy sure if this is as true of singing and dancing as of acting. I agree that with acting your natural talent can go a long way and can almost be honed "on the job" - lots of older actors learnt their craft in rep.
However, with singing and dancing it different. For singing training is essential as other wise you can wreck your voice and have a very short career. With dancing then it's essential to have classes, otherwise despite having natural talent you would not be able to learn quickly ( not understand the terminology etc) get injured (by doing a movement the wrong way) and learn how to do partner work etc (like lifts).
As a MT perfromer you need all 3 skills - the "triple threat" performer - to have a good career. At the moment I would consider Jessie a single, possibly double threat. That would also explain why she didn't get into a MT course - you do all 3 at the auditions (my daughter is on one).
However, with singing and dancing it different. For singing training is essential as other wise you can wreck your voice and have a very short career. With dancing then it's essential to have classes, otherwise despite having natural talent you would not be able to learn quickly ( not understand the terminology etc) get injured (by doing a movement the wrong way) and learn how to do partner work etc (like lifts).
As a MT perfromer you need all 3 skills - the "triple threat" performer - to have a good career. At the moment I would consider Jessie a single, possibly double threat. That would also explain why she didn't get into a MT course - you do all 3 at the auditions (my daughter is on one).
Originally Posted by jackbauer<3:
“As a MT perfromer you need all 3 skills -”
“As a MT perfromer you need all 3 skills -”
I respect your view, but can Barry Humphries and Rowan Atkinson dance, sing and act?
(PS: Now I'm off-topic
)
I think she upped her game last week and looked more like a good choice for Nancy. Maybe the judges cooling away from her has helped her focus more on trying for the part. I don't mind her dancing, it's different and shows some character.
Originally Posted by jackbauer<3:
“Noy sure if this is as true of singing and dancing as of acting. I agree that with acting your natural talent can go a long way and can almost be honed "on the job" - lots of older actors learnt their craft in rep.
However, with singing and dancing it different. For singing training is essential as other wise you can wreck your voice and have a very short career. With dancing then it's essential to have classes, otherwise despite having natural talent you would not be able to learn quickly ( not understand the terminology etc) get injured (by doing a movement the wrong way) and learn how to do partner work etc (like lifts).
As a MT perfromer you need all 3 skills - the "triple threat" performer - to have a good career. At the moment I would consider Jessie a single, possibly double threat. That would also explain why she didn't get into a MT course - you do all 3 at the auditions (my daughter is on one).”
“Noy sure if this is as true of singing and dancing as of acting. I agree that with acting your natural talent can go a long way and can almost be honed "on the job" - lots of older actors learnt their craft in rep.
However, with singing and dancing it different. For singing training is essential as other wise you can wreck your voice and have a very short career. With dancing then it's essential to have classes, otherwise despite having natural talent you would not be able to learn quickly ( not understand the terminology etc) get injured (by doing a movement the wrong way) and learn how to do partner work etc (like lifts).
As a MT perfromer you need all 3 skills - the "triple threat" performer - to have a good career. At the moment I would consider Jessie a single, possibly double threat. That would also explain why she didn't get into a MT course - you do all 3 at the auditions (my daughter is on one).”
Even if you go to a dance college you still have to be assessed in singing and acting as well. I too have a daughter who is doing a 3 year course at the moment and another who is just in the process of auditioning for a course. At dance colleges these days they cover either dance or musical theatre courses.
Originally Posted by melvin_m_melvin:
“I respect your view, but can Barry Humphries and Rowan Atkinson dance, sing and act?
(PS: Now I'm off-topic )”
“I respect your view, but can Barry Humphries and Rowan Atkinson dance, sing and act?
(PS: Now I'm off-topic
)”
Probably
as the role of Fagin requires them to be able to sing and dance to a degree
Originally Posted by MrsSpoon:
“I think she upped her game last week and looked more like a good choice for Nancy. Maybe the judges cooling away from her has helped her focus more on trying for the part. I don't mind her dancing, it's different and shows some character.”
“I think she upped her game last week and looked more like a good choice for Nancy. Maybe the judges cooling away from her has helped her focus more on trying for the part. I don't mind her dancing, it's different and shows some character.”
exactly! there are so many people trained in MT that are so similar and 'text book' and i think that might be the problem with rachel. jessie is fab and i really hope she can pull an amazing performance out of the bag this week. i don't think anyone can deny that when she's good, she's oh so good.
Originally Posted by melvin_m_melvin:
“I respect your view, but can Barry Humphries and Rowan Atkinson dance, sing and act?
(PS: Now I'm off-topic )”
“I respect your view, but can Barry Humphries and Rowan Atkinson dance, sing and act?
(PS: Now I'm off-topic
)”
what are you? the topic police?
Originally Posted by kates89:
“exactly! there are so many people trained in MT that are so similar and 'text book' and i think that might be the problem with rachel. jessie is fab and i really hope she can pull an amazing performance out of the bag this week. i don't think anyone can deny that when she's good, she's oh so good.”
“exactly! there are so many people trained in MT that are so similar and 'text book' and i think that might be the problem with rachel. jessie is fab and i really hope she can pull an amazing performance out of the bag this week. i don't think anyone can deny that when she's good, she's oh so good.”
exactly my point up a few posts about "text book" it isn't always the best and not all actors have it, some people are just talented and have gotten work without a stitch of schooling believe it or not. (well maybe highschoolish) you get scouted and get taken under the wing of someone, you have it made.
Originally Posted by piper333:
“
exactly my point up a few posts about "text book" it isn't always the best and not all actors have it, some people are just talented and have gotten work without a stitch of schooling believe it or not. (well maybe highschoolish) you get scouted and get taken under the wing of someone, you have it made.”
“
exactly my point up a few posts about "text book" it isn't always the best and not all actors have it, some people are just talented and have gotten work without a stitch of schooling believe it or not. (well maybe highschoolish) you get scouted and get taken under the wing of someone, you have it made.”
great minds think alike eh then piper
Originally Posted by jackbauer<3:
“...
However, with singing and dancing it different. For singing training is essential as other wise you can wreck your voice and have a very short career. With dancing then it's essential to have classes, otherwise despite having natural talent you would not be able to learn quickly ( not understand the terminology etc) get injured (by doing a movement the wrong way) and learn how to do partner work etc (like lifts).
As a MT perfromer you need all 3 skills - the "triple threat" performer - to have a good career. ...”
“...
However, with singing and dancing it different. For singing training is essential as other wise you can wreck your voice and have a very short career. With dancing then it's essential to have classes, otherwise despite having natural talent you would not be able to learn quickly ( not understand the terminology etc) get injured (by doing a movement the wrong way) and learn how to do partner work etc (like lifts).
As a MT perfromer you need all 3 skills - the "triple threat" performer - to have a good career. ...”
That sounds very sensible really.
I wonder why they allow relatively 'untrained' contestants to enter.
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