Since the OP referenced "posters" in that same sentence, it would seem sensible to assume s/he was 'speaking' of the majority of posters on the forum.

...even though I've already told the PM this in the house in the last hour. He might have forgotten.



I don't think you have to have an anti-Lucinda perspective to see this as passive-aggressive. I watch with a couple of friends. The one who could be said to be pro-Lucinda was the one who commented on this as we watched.

Out of interest, though, where do you say this is wrong:

So, if she's on her own and sells nothing - not her fault as she said she objected. If she's not on her own and sells nothing - not her fault as a proper salesman was there. If she's not on her own and Lee is criticised for having not concentrated on the far more valuable Zonda - not her fault as she told Lee she would sell on her own and it was his decision to split the team that way.

Do you say it's just her political savvy at work that coincidentally gets her off the hook whatever happens in trying her best to function in the task?

What was Lee supposed to make of what she said?

Fair enough.

I'm sorry but doesn't this kind of prove the point I was making earlier ?

IE. That the person with the least sales experience should- in this case Helene - work alongside the person with the most.

This partnership allowed Helene, not the best salesperson in the world, to theoretically work hard and use the skills she did have to postively contribute to the task.....and perhaps to feed folk towards Claire who could then close the deal. She also had the chance to watch + learn with instant back up available incase she stuffed up.

Lee and Alex however sent out their weakest sales person to faff around on their own...without being managed at all.

The sad thing is Lee and Lucinda worked extremely well together before the introduction of the smirkmeister to the team.

Both L's have weaknesses but imo their skills sets were very complimentary. However in the last 2 tasks a silly boys club atmosphere has gotten in the way of logical decision making. Of course Lucinda is responsible for how she reacts to that....but Lee and Alex are equally culpable in how they've chosen to behave.

(Two instances that I'd highlight - Last week Alex deliberately misconstruing Lucinda's comments on the box design - his twisting of her words that led to the "Naughty Naughty" remarks.

And then this week Alex lying about the raffle ticket idea.

This type of obsfication is has been his stock technique from Week One ....it's how he survived the first boardroom. )

In all honesty I don't believe Lucinda is the right candidate to work for SAS.......but she certainly isn't devoid of skills by any means despite her flaws.

Not according to the posters on this board who lambaste Helene for doing nothing. Also, as a strategy, it didn't work because Helene sold nothing whereas Lee's stategy of putting his two best on the expensive product did work.

Sales isn't something you just pick up in fifteen minutes. It takes time and it takes someone with a knack for it. Helene was with a very good salesperson and yet didn't, in the course of 10 hours, become one herself.


I can understand that for Lee it was more important to concentrate on the Zonda. He'd have to sell what - 10 hours of Aston Martin time to match one sale on the Zonda?

Lucinda has to be managed, as you point out. It's one of the major reasons why I don't think she should be in this competition.



Out of interest, do you call Claire and Helene "a silly girls club"?

Logical decision making - to sell the most car hire - was in evidence, very much so. Best people on the significantly more profitable vehicle.


So me transcribing what was actually said was a pointless exercise then?

There is a lot to catch up on in the board, so can someone tell me why they don't think Lucinda is very good so I can counter-argue it?

Those people don't matter.
Lucinda's gonna walk it this year.

Can't DS get their act together and create an emoticon with a beret for us Lucinda fans?

Actually, it's just a very vocal minority who think that. Same with Claire.

In fact there seems to be a rather nasty vein of mysogany running through the threads at the moment.

Check the "most popular candidate" for a more accurate view of the opinions of forum members.

I don't really like Lee so much now, I gave him the benefit of the doubt but clearly this week had double standards.

He made a point in the previous episode that Lucinda should have been more forceful and not 'volunteered'. Such a statement suggests that it could have been different otherwise there would be no reason to say it. This week Lucinda was about as forceful as she could have been when it came to not being on her own and Lee just wouldn't listen.

Even SAS commented that it wasn't the best decision.

Just to satisfy your interest, Claire and Helene have never sidelined another candidate leaving him to perform a task they knew he was incapable of performing to any degree of satisfaction.


But it wasn't a logical decision, was it?

Logically, Lee should have realised that the people he wanted to spend great big wodges of disposable income would, during the course of the working day, be actually earning that disposable income.

So it was absurd to concentrate all his selling strength in one place (where only one sale was made, by him, during the working day).

Had he sent Alex of with the AM, Alex might well have sold some time on it (since he is supposed to be a professional salesman) and he could have briefed Lucinda and got her up to speed whilst he wasn't selling.


Rather like my explaining why Lee's PM decisions were crap (with detailed reasoning) several times only to have people who never tried to argue with that reasoning just wait a day or two and repeat that Lee made good decisions.

He didn't, for the reasons stated above.

You could show respect for your fellow posters and read the thread. It's fully discussed. Or...


...you could do this. Different opinions are such a strain and being in the majority could validate yours. Note, however, that for an accurate view of the opinions of forum members, you'd actually have to read the whole forum, not just one thread.


I've seen gender-assumptions thrown at Lee and Alex on here. Where's the misogyny?


In your opinion, not mine nor, I assume, the opinion of those other people you refer to. Lee's decisions weren't crap (because he won, which was the objective) and in any event, what we think about the decisions he made is a matter of opinion.

I was not referring to a matter of opinion. I was referring to a fact, ie. what was said on screen. Big difference.

I have respect for my fellow posters...

Lovely-jubbly.

Sorry that I'm crap at summarizing.

Yeah but I wasn't refering to other posters view of Helene...we were tallking about task strategy and job allocations..

My post was in reference to your point that despite not selling Helene had been identified by Claire as having contributed more to the task.

Or to quote


Exactly! That's why it's a complete nonsense to send off your least experienced team member to work on their own and expect positive results. Lee made a bad choice.

It was not effective...a fact demonstrated on the show by Helene and Claire capturing the most sales in the morning....

Pairing weak + strong meant that....Helene was in a position to use the skills she did have and while ensuring any lack of knowledge was compensated by Claire. IE They complimented each other skills. It's all about maximising your chances.


Yes but it was NOT an either or scenario...it's about attempting to maximise your sales in both areas...spreading the risk...and this was perfectly achievable....but not by sending Lucinda out to work on her own.


In terms of their win ....The key decision that allowed Lee's team to succeed was the risky but effective choice of cars.... it was not down to how he managed or allocated his staff (....at this he was crap LOL)

Anyway I'm even boring myself now.. We will never agree on this which is fine...

(You're simply wrong, and I am right )

Lee determined that they couldn't spread the risk. They had to take two cars to two locations but they would win or lose on the Zonda, pure and simple. It was a high risk strategy that needed the absolute best effort. The best effort was the experienced sales team.

Nobody's suggesting that Lee couldn't have done everything you say. He could have although it would take time out from what he was doing. When people comment, in hindsight with a view to everything that worked well and everything that didn't, they can cover everything that arises in their judgement of Lee or Alex or Lucinda. Lee doesn't have that luxury at the time.

All that's being suggested is that what Lee did, with the resources he had, was a legitimate way to go. The measure - the sole measure - of this task was the bottom line figure, not how much Lucinda felt supported or how the audience liked him.

Those who condemn Lee for not having trained/hand-held/whatever Lucinda need to have a look at the unseen footage over at the BBC website, in particular the one called "Two Zambinis Please." You will see Lee and you will see Lucinda. I'm interested to know if your views on Lee's management or Lucinda's competence change after viewing it.

LOL I'm not condemning Lee and I don't think Lucinda behaved perfectly either on the task...I've also mentioned that they’ve both worked well together in the past....all the points I've been making are to do with the bottom line ..... anyway I'm only repeating myself ... so I will now shut up on the matter. Let’s just agree to disagree as it were

( This level of over analysis is probably not good for my poor wee brain LOL I'm fearing we might otherwise end up like the candidates..... stuck in some pointless and never ending arguement.... and unfortunately without SAS butting in to tell one of us we're fired.)

That's true but it seems the longer you work with Lucinda, the harder it gets. Don't you also attribute his deteriorating respect of Lucinda to Alex's influence rather than to anything Lucinda does (or as the BBC Apprentice news piece puts it, the long list of things she can't do)?


Shame. I really do want to understand alternative points of view but am a stickler for referring to what actually happened on screen and what can legitimately be drawn from what happens on it. I've noticed a tendency for people to jump to judgements or conclusions (not necessarily you) that aren't supported by what is on screen and, over analytical or not, I feel compelled to comment on it.

Erm 1 for £2k+ which is more than the whole other team got in all of the task.

Now my point was that if Lucinda wasn't there:

1. Lee and Alex would not need to spend time talking to her and hence could concentrate more on sales.

2. Lee would not get stressed by her childish behaviour and so could get more sales.

3. Lee would not have to take time out to 'teach' her how to sell.

4. Lee would not have a person 'shadowing' him for no reason at all and hence would lose the pressure and could get more sales.

But she wasn't there and they sold 1 unit in around eight hours between two of them.


If he couldn't handle staff and selling without getting stressed then he should have concentrated on his PM role.


But he didn't during the course of the whole of the daytime period.


Having an attractive woman walking by your side should not cause anyone with reasonable people skills to become stressed.

Well, for one, I do feel the unseen footage shows that the programme certainly wasn't edited to make Lucinda look bad/Lee look good as some have suggested, and puts a radically different slant on the question of whether Lee did nothing to prepare an inexperienced seller (Lucinda) for the task - he plainly tried and Lucinda's inability to learn the names and basics of two products does a supposedly intelligent woman no credit.
I have been a Lucinda fan since early on (and I still quite like her) but it is becoming increasingly difficult to see her as a serious business woman, much less in an organisation like Alan Sugars.

None of us can know for sure, editing can change a perfectly innocence remark into something quite different.

Have you read Adam Hosker's Apprentice diary? It's worth a read.

But he did have time to decorate that statue with all these pieces of paper he happened to have on him, while she sat and watched. That was cool.

That's because of the place they were in, remember all the teams where not allowed in the best place until 6pm or something, that's where Alex and Lee came into their own and sold £11k+



The point was that he didn't need to get stressed had Lucinda acted professionally and did what she was told or had any knowledge whatsoever about sales she would of done something useful.




Whatever floats your boat mate But to counter that Lee has got people skills as proven in the wedding task where he had to sell thongs to women, he did very well.

Now when your trying to sell you need to concentrate on the potential customer, you don't need any added hassle of someone watching your back and clinging on any word you say.

What I would of done is given Lucinda couple of quid to go to an internet café and read up on sale techniques instead of allowing her to 'shadow' me.

But the point is its the apprentice and someone with as much lack of common sense as Lucinda has should not be tolerated. I'm 17 and I reckon I would of been able to sell more than she did even with my 'lack' of experience.

Absolutely bladdy amazing!

I started watching that fully expecting to have to come and eat my words and admit that Lucinda was being useless.

Instead I see Lee being well organised and Lucinda being very positive and doing her best to get get to grips with a lot of technical information that she was totally unfamilair with even in principle.

The final edit shows both Lee and Lucinda in a far worse light than either deserved.

OK, she got the names wrong when she was trying to get to grips with a lot of other details. She was basically suffering from information overload.

Of course, the BBC found it much better TV to show Lee being stressed, laddish and unsympathetic and Lucinda uncooperative than show Lee being well organised and helpful and Lucinda being well organised and positive.

I genuinely don't believe that anyone disgraced themselves in the car task. I saw a lot of exhausted, desperate people at the end of their tethers trying to deal with a high pressure task. I don't think anyone was being unreasonable on their terms, but that it certainly appeared unreasonable to others who were trying to stay focused on their own concerns.