And how many people do you know that watch the show then? Just to get a little perspective on the matter.

This is a post for those interested in talking about Lucinda rather than Vivid.

It was reported on another thread that Lucinda said on Breakfast TV that she wanted to get into presenting (TV or Radio).

My response was that it explained a lot and to comment that she was indeed shrewd (as stated by Nick). Asked to explain, I said this:

Her shrewdness comes in the way she handled herself on this show. She made sure she was very distinguishable from the rest from the start. She presented herself as a victim because of it (taxi ride: "they didn't like my clothes, my accent, etc.") She played the slightly helpless, ditzy blonde, currying popular appeal. She made sure everytime she wasn't in charge that there was someone else to carry the can if the task was lost. She only showed real competence - a competence that should have been implied by her career to date - only when that wasn't possible, i.e. when she was in charge.

Proof is in the pudding - she's built herself a popular image and now intends to use it.

I was told that I'd made a lot of assumptions for a flippant. Sadly, the person has since disappeared and didn't respond to my question, which was this: I didn't see the show. Was it a flippant comment?

Also, I rewatched YF tonight with a friend who is not a Lucinda fan either (for those keeping count). She said that the way she dressed wasn't an issue but it was for the apprentices. Can anybody give me a single example of an apprentice having a problem with Lucinda's wardrobe?

Then you don't appreciate the nature of the challenges she faced as PM on the relevant tasks, on both occasions as project manager she was faced with having to make very few decisions and there were no real challenges for the PMs. Lucinda simply let everyone do their own thing, because she was unable to do little else as she had no plan or strategy and fortunately for her the tasks didn't really require her to have one. Her team members perceived as a good project manager simply because she left them alone.

So says the person who has posted 548 times on a Message Board.

There is another possible theory to explain all this though - are you 24? Do you wear a horrible amount of hair 'product', lip gloss and a coat with lapels so ostentatious that you look like Himmler's 'wide-boy' nephew? Are you fluent in English? (Actually, you do seem to be - and don't invent words like "dictorial" - so that one may well be out of the window too...)

In all seriousness though, when you say her work as project manager "just" consisted of letting people do what they are good at... In what way do you see that as NOT being a good project manager? What else are they supposed to be doing? (I've missed the programmes this series where other project managers have split the atom, invented Post-Its, negotiated a take-over of Microsoft for £3.50 and cured smallpox.)

The very reason she did distinguish herself from the other clowns on there is by assessing people's skills, assigning them relevant tasks and then letting people work to their strengths - something the others singularly failed to do, on the whole.

Thanks for your reply. She isn't responsible for how people perceive her on the outside (positively or negatively) so it's a bit harsh to hold that against her...
I've worked with her on more than one occassion (in the real world) and i have to disagree with your views on her. But I understand that these are your views for whatever reason. What I can't understand is why you so venomously get stuck into her each time you post. It's a little disturbing (perhaps in the same way as someone repeatedly posting that she deserves the Nobel Prize, based on what they've seen on the telly). You're certainly committing a lot of energy to it. Hence my previous query about what's driving you here - there seems to be more than a dislike (or whatever you want to term it) of someone on a tv show, that you can always turn off. And she's not even on anymore.
Not wanting to row, just intrigued.

I think the reason people feel so strongly about the contestants is because they are on TV. Which, to quote Charlie Brooker, acts as a '**** magnifier'.

As soon as the contestants arn't on the actual show, they seem quite nice.

Lucinda, for example, when she appeared, would cause me to become a sweary ball of rage who believed she was a tilty headed antichrist, with bad make up.

A few post Apprentice interviews later, and she seems like a slightly annoying primary school teacher.

Look - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BMml-FMLX-I

Also, Holy Moly TV is ace. Truefact.

I don't object to her personally, rather what she represents. She is an example of the air-headed, self-indulgent, immature and self-deluded who thinks the world revolves around her needs and desires, and Feng Shui and aromatherapy. She is detached from reality, yet she thinks she is marvellous and attached to reality, it is a grand delusion. It is as though she hasn't grown up from being a teenager and is still dressing up.

She has some sort of following in the main (there are exceptions of course) because she dresses up and wears berets and thereby seems to catch support from people who are more interested in style than substance, and it is very noticeable that almost all of her supporters don't seem to understand the adult world, how to manage people or how to achieve goals. One notable supporter seemed to recognise her general ineptness and defended it because she was ...errrhh .. inept and argued she should be given special consideration rather than criticism, insane!

Perhaps most maddening of all is her focus on herself, on her feelings, her emotions, on her views, at the expense of other people and the real world and its priorities and her conversation revolves infuriatingly around these themes.

She would probably be better social company than some of the other candidates, such as the graceless chav Claire ( who is also focused on herself but has learnt to hide it) , because she is more harmless and less stupid than Claire and has some basic charms, but if I had to work with her I would go absolutely barmy.

She thinks the world revolves around Feng Shui and aromatherapy? Why, because she's interested in them? You've absolutely no basis for that statement. Do you have interests? If so, do you think the world revolves around them?
"She thinks she is marvellous" - does she? You've heard her say "I think I'm marvellous"? What is the grounds for this statement.
"She hasn't grown up..." - because she's not bitter and twisted and maintains an element of light-heartedness in her life? (This is the queue for your "immature..." etc rant here, without actually providing any basis for all these names).

Your whole 2nd paragraph is about her "support" which i believe - as mentioned in my last post - is not under her control. She's not Oprah with an army of baying brainwashed viewers awaiting their next orders (eg "Buy Book").

Your 3rd paragraph refers to her focus on herself at the expense of everything else. What is this based on? On the show i've seen her show empathy for fellow contestants (eg Lindi when being fired, Sara when under attack by the other candidates). Regarding her expressing her views etc, I assume you're talking about the "to camera" pieces, where she is replying to direct questions about her views on various matters...? If not, please fill me in. She does have a more visible softer side than most of the other candidates, which in my opinion is not a bad thing. You need all sorts to make a team work.

Yes, she is good social (and business) company - although I've actually warmed to Claire in the past few weeks too and think she might be a good laugh to have a drink with, outside of the office. (I'm not trying to disagree with everything you say, i promise!).
I've found her to be extremely capable, sharp, respected (by peers, clients and managament) and fun.

To reiterate my original point - and the reason i'm typing all this in the first place - I still cannot help thinking that there's something more driving your posts than just a girl off the telly that annoys you. If this is the case, you'll never tell us I'm sure so this post has been a waste of time for everyone concerned, but even so, your continuous venom has bothered me into replying. It just all seems a little over the top to me.

I have been in business in The Real World for 22 years. during that time I have employed people and managed them as well as been responsible for my own tasks and targets. I don't think Lucinda appears to be 'deluded' nor does an interest in such marginal things like Feng Shui or aromatherapy undermine her ability. Anita Roddick would not have made her money without such 'fads'.
I do not understand why you identify her as being deluded and self-obsessed. all candidates must have an arrogance to think they can work with/for SAS - at least she had some substance.

Aww I really liked that interview. Pretty funny Thanks for the link.

A big and rather childish assumption, really. I can't speak for anyone else - nor would I attempt to - but I run a £3 million store with 35 staff. Your assumption is absurd, and you know it.

My lodger used to run a large part of a large boots department store which had a turnover of tens of millions and had something over 50 people to look after and she had little understanding of project management. Though she did seem to have a slightly more realistic understanding of the world than many of the Lucinda supporters.

Please Sara can I have a discount?
With the credit crunch times are hard now.

Her obsession with Feng Shui and aromatherapy is indicative of a lack of attachment to the real world and a preference for a fanciful view of the world.

In reference to your last para you would be wrong in your thinking.

As I explained before it is what she represents and the strange behaviour of people who endorse her. Thinking individuals familiar with the real world can clearly see numerous defects in her approach and capabilities. As I have said before, she is probably quite a nice person socially as indicated in the Holy Moly interview.

You say she is respected by her peers and clients, well I can only assume she has some very specific skills which are appreciated that do not transfer to anything else, or if they can she hasn't a robust enough character to enable them to be transferred. What was the name of the two cars she had to remember? Oh yes I can remember, I wonder if she can.

I will try and give a more complete answer at some later time.

Don't bother.

Your value to this forum as a little light comedy relief is well past its sell by date.

Every one who write on here is of value. All with different points of view but most living in harmony with other peoples point of view.

Occasionally someone LOw comes along and trys to wind people up and when it can't win reduces to personal insults. It tried to make out I was on the bottle all the time bless its cotton socks ... thats how it wins arguments

Just in case anybody is confused, I don't think the remark above was aimed at me, someone much lower.

Yes, Vivid is well known for his harmonious attitude to other people's opinions.


Fascinating.

I'm sure you can provide a link to where that happened (unless, of course, you just made it up).


So you believe that people win arguments by suggesting that other people are 'on the bottle' all the time?

An interesting concept.

I appreciate that intelligent discussion and objective analysis isn't your cup of tea, your preference is for the superficial or fanciful.

This thread seems to have wandered off topic.

Well yes, in small doses, which is why your posts amused me for a while.

I don't need to provide the link, you know where you wrote it.

No I said IT (meaning you) thinks that is how arguments are won but I let you live in your dream world, lol

Living in a dream world does seem to describe 2LO very well, evidence, facts and logic don't feature and speculation and wishful thinking does.

Guess IT's best ignored as I will do now