Oh Eurostar, don't you get it? Jon is our leader, our chosen one, our Messiah. We can have no truck with such heresy

Anyway, read your bible - the last Messiah was ultimately betrayed by one of his 12 housemates as well

........but as we have seen, the ALL the HMs views are very different from our views outside!

Who can forget Ray think that they were all very intresting and wonderful TV !!!

How more wrong could he be!!!

And look how many 'new Messiahs' since then have turned out to be charlatans Edna

Move over David 'Waco' Koresh,I give you Jon Tickle!

Correct,but it's not neccessarily a good sign that the only one who thinks he's a 'legend' is Federico (and Jon himself of course)

I take your point but I think you have to consider it may be because of different tastes. Certainly, in my case, I don't think I'd get on with the house-mates who have expressed these views against Jon. I do think that given E4 streaming we get to see enough of people's characters to make reasonable judgements, even if we don't see as much as the house-mates themselves.

I am positive I would not get on with Ray in real life - he's just a typical 'party, good-time lad' and I'm sure he'd also hate me. When I hear comments of the like from him about Jon being boring, it just reminds me of those the 'in crowd' made at me twenty years ago at school. Not that I think the ability to go out, drink ten pints then get in a fight makes someone interesting but it seems more socially acceptable than liking sci-fi. Note, I don't think Ray's the fighting type, just that his ideal night out and mine would differ tremendously.

I know I would not get on with Steph, I just wouldn't be able to hold a conversation with her. I know Cameron and I wouldn't get on because we'd clash at some point over his beliefs. I could probably get on with Scott. Who else has slagged Jon? Justine? Ha, completely different world. Anouska? The same.

I do, however, have a pretty good idea I would get on with Jon despite his faults because I do, in fact, know people like him. One, a lot like him, was my best friend at University. Yes, I might find it hard living with him after a while but I'd still, on balance, like him I think.

It would be amazing if everyone in the house got on, and make pretty bad TV so I am not surprised that Jon as the most outside the mainstream is the most disliked. I also do not expect them to change their minds and would be disappointed if they did. However, Jon had plenty of support at his eviction nights from friends/family (as did they all) so to try to rubbish him as some do, using the house-mate's opinions doesn't hold much weight either. He's just human, like the rest, some people will get on with him and some won't.

The one thing that makes me slightly suspicious is that he keeps being mentioned by the others - why are they going on about him? He's just going to go back to work and then they can get on with the limelight, so why keep mentioning him? It does suggest a little jealousy, sorry. I will, however, accept that it could just as easily be the editing - Ray probably commented about all the house-mates because he was asked and they just left the Jon comment in because it's 'juicy'.

Expecting me to change my mind based on the opinions of the house-mates who I know would have no time for me is a little unreasonable don't you think?

Excellent post, Bodders, you have more or less summed up what I was thinking about Jon's relationship with the other HMs. Look at Ray's reason for naming Jon as the most boring housemate. Not because he didn't say or do anything interesting but because Ray didn't get on with him and everytime Jon tried to start a conversation with him he froze him out. Doesn't that say a lot more about Ray than it does about Jon?

Sod off Ray!! He's got some nerve accusing Jon of being bigheaded, even if it is true he can hardly talk, his head has been wedged far up his own arse since day 1. He thinks of himself as really cool and can't understand why Jon is so popular because jon isn't the norm 'in crowd' type of bloke. He's just making an arse of himself by slagging Jon off all the time, let him carry on.

Remember that the bb diaries are edited though. Ray did say 'in the first 4 weeks' he couldnt get on with Jon. then it cut to elsewhere. Ill bet anything that the cut bit showed him saying 'but when Jon came back into the house we got on a lot better' Ray HAS said this before. I think on the BB reunion show.

Jealous of what success? A few appearances on a TV show that has about 3 viewers. I wouldn't call that success.

And just what sort of "success" will Ray have then????

Compared to Ray has done what! considering he was runner-up. Yes Ray does seem jealous of Jon. As to why, only the idiot Ray knows that. Maybe he can't stand the fact that Jon has more fan's than him. Tough Ray if you read on here at all, grow up and deal with it.

But RI:SE isn't!

Ray saw fit to bring Jon's name up AGAIN today. They were discssing an american reality tv show. It involved people putting a mate up for a bit of humiliation. Ray was asked who he would put forward, he said.....Jon Tickle. Jon's name is tripping off Ray's lips a little to quickly.....he is a either obsessed with the guy or jealous. I think jealous is more likely.

But never mind.......Jon's off back to work. Ray can display his scintillating personality without having to worry about Jon over shadowing him. BTW....Ray's second outing in the tv slot was crap. He still reads badly from those cards instead of simply using them for reference. Let someone else have a go.

Well, considering that Ray acts as though he's only just learnt to count with his fingers that's not much of a surprise.

I'm affraid that with practise you can improve at TV presenting, but it's a natural "talent" and you either get it in the first few hours or not at all !

Why do ALL HM delude themselves that they can now do things that they were never able to do in the first place?

Take me, Now I'm a Karaoke host and can sing to a fashion and on a good night, sing a certain song up to good Karaoke standard - but I have no natural talent as a singer. - Now, TV presenting I could do with my eyes closed -- now put me in the BB house for 9 weeks and at the end if I did some Presenting, everyone would say Oooo! he is really good at that (But then I was in the first place!) but if I had a go at Pop Chart sucess, everyone would quite rightly say "God! get him off, he is no better than a Karaoke singer!! (And they would be correct!)

What I mean by that is just cos you have a dream, if you have no natural talent for it, spending 9 weeks anywhere is not going to give you that natural talent - as soon as all HMs now and in the future learn this the better!

That is the major problem with Wannabies - They want to be famous, but they ain't got a clue at what ! - and to them they are not concerned at what as long as it's something!!! - Before applying to BB they should do some research as to what they are slightly good at in the first place!!!

No idea and not really the point. You were claiming that Ray is jealous of Jon's success. The point is - there's nothing to be jealous about as Jon's success amounts to a few appearances on a TV show that nobody watches anymore.

Then why Ray is *still* bitching about him when the show is over? Very petty and vindictive.
Last edited by ben4321 : 06-08-2003 at 11:46

\well it seems my decision not to watch the diaries seems to be right

As petty as Jon bitching about Cameron.

Jon has cause given Cameron's total unpleasantness towards him. What has Jon ever really done to Ray, apart from totally outsmart him in retaliation for his bitching against him and good on him.

Jon has been on Tomorrows World which is highly respected, and has had phenomenal press coverage while he was in the house and even after he got evicted. For someone who was runner-up Ray is turning out to be this year's Jonny Regan. No one is interested in him! Well done to Jon for having the personality and charisma to make even the winner STILL jealous of him! Funny how CaMORON, Ray, Steph, Scott and Gos sit down to a meal and before you can say Jon Tickle is the REAL winner of BB4, they have started slagging him off. Not bad for someone who Ray told to get a personality!

What total unpleasantness????? Wild exaggerations again

Again, read the threads. Slow on the uptake again.

Again - lame

To be honest, I'm rapidly losing interest in going round in circles with you. If you can't understand why Cameron is disliked or the interpersonal dynamics between Jon and Ray now after the show is *over*, then you never will.

Toodle pip.

In my eyes, they're both as bad as each other. Jon can't seem to stop bringing Cameron up, or making out as if he's the master strategist who's got everyone and everything sussed while Ray seems a tad too preocupied with Jon .

To be fair, it seems neither man can "let go" so to speak.