Not fixing as such but, looking back, I did think the "Singing in the Rain" dancing kid's act and story were so hyped up before he even began that he was in a no-lose situation.
ITV 'fixing' who goes through?
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Oh what is with these threads!
1. Opening the lines as soon as the first act goes on is blatently favoring the first act. They would have 90 minutes of voting time while the last act would have 10 minutes.
Stupid idea
2. The ad breaks are defined by contract, they are where they fall and the shows have to plot around them; not the other way around. Don't like it; go watch BBC as thats only network in this country that don't have ad breaks.
Hell go spend some time in America; they have more ad's and longer ad space too. So this effect would be more predominant.
3. They don't feature every act like they do the favourites due to air time. There is a reason they favour certain acts too; because they are the most likely people will like.
And there is the big point; ITV don't choose favourites because they happen to like the person; its because people are more likely to buy into that person.
TV is an expensive game, rating battles are cut throat. If they were hyping up a mediocre dance troup or a naff magic act then the show would loose a lot of credibility.
The acts that have gone through have been no suprise either. Not one act to go through has suprised me in the slightest.
When BGT is on; there are hot shows on other channels - not just terrestial but sky/virginmedia as well. BGT has to compete with these shows.
If they put on the best of the night up at the beginning or close to the beginning; lots of viewers will stray to other channels. This happens on every TV program; why shouldn't it be any difference here.
People just like conspiracy theories; 99% of which are BS. Don't like how BGT is run; switch off.
Don't like how TV is run; switch it off.
I wish we could say its a nice day outside so go outside instead - sadly this is Britain so it ain't
1. Opening the lines as soon as the first act goes on is blatently favoring the first act. They would have 90 minutes of voting time while the last act would have 10 minutes.
Stupid idea
2. The ad breaks are defined by contract, they are where they fall and the shows have to plot around them; not the other way around. Don't like it; go watch BBC as thats only network in this country that don't have ad breaks.
Hell go spend some time in America; they have more ad's and longer ad space too. So this effect would be more predominant.
3. They don't feature every act like they do the favourites due to air time. There is a reason they favour certain acts too; because they are the most likely people will like.
And there is the big point; ITV don't choose favourites because they happen to like the person; its because people are more likely to buy into that person.
TV is an expensive game, rating battles are cut throat. If they were hyping up a mediocre dance troup or a naff magic act then the show would loose a lot of credibility.
The acts that have gone through have been no suprise either. Not one act to go through has suprised me in the slightest.
When BGT is on; there are hot shows on other channels - not just terrestial but sky/virginmedia as well. BGT has to compete with these shows.
If they put on the best of the night up at the beginning or close to the beginning; lots of viewers will stray to other channels. This happens on every TV program; why shouldn't it be any difference here.
People just like conspiracy theories; 99% of which are BS. Don't like how BGT is run; switch off.
Don't like how TV is run; switch it off.
I wish we could say its a nice day outside so go outside instead - sadly this is Britain so it ain't
They are not fixing the votes as such, but the last act
-is last and when people don't know the acts very well it is important
-is over hyped
-has an overly emotional/sob VT with an uplifting music.
I think that by now, I could predict a winner in a Cowell talent competition just by watching the VTs.. It is becoming so obvious
-is last and when people don't know the acts very well it is important
-is over hyped
-has an overly emotional/sob VT with an uplifting music.
I think that by now, I could predict a winner in a Cowell talent competition just by watching the VTs.. It is becoming so obvious
BGT fixing who wins? What a surprise! But I have noticed that people are slowly beginning to see these sob stories for what they are.
I live rather near George and while it is not beautiful, it is nowhere near as bad as depiected on screen...
I live rather near George and while it is not beautiful, it is nowhere near as bad as depiected on screen...
Originally Posted by C14E:
“They did not "let ITV off" just because it wouldn't have made a difference.”
“They did not "let ITV off" just because it wouldn't have made a difference.”
That is not logical. If it were true why did Oftel bother to thoroughly investigate whether the Xfactor timings had made a difference to the result, and then use the fact that it hadn't to justify dismissing that particular complaint? They would have just said there were no grounds for such a complaint in the first place.
So, I still think the Xfactor case serves as a good example that rigging a vote via timings would be grounds for upholding a complaint, just as vote counting errors have been where they have been of a magnitude to cause a different winner.
Originally Posted by dougaz:
“That is not logical. If it were true why did Oftel bother to thoroughly investigate whether the Xfactor timings had made a difference to the result, and then use the fact that it hadn't to justify dismissing that particular complaint? They would have just said there were no grounds for such a complaint in the first place.
So, I still think the Xfactor case serves as a good example that rigging a vote via timings would be grounds for upholding a complaint, just as vote counting errors have been where they have been of a magnitude to cause a different winner.”
“That is not logical. If it were true why did Oftel bother to thoroughly investigate whether the Xfactor timings had made a difference to the result, and then use the fact that it hadn't to justify dismissing that particular complaint? They would have just said there were no grounds for such a complaint in the first place.
So, I still think the Xfactor case serves as a good example that rigging a vote via timings would be grounds for upholding a complaint, just as vote counting errors have been where they have been of a magnitude to cause a different winner.”
OFCOM's main reason for looking into the minute-by-minute timings was with regard to Dermot saying there was only 1% in it. It was mentioned in the adjudication with regard to the winners song that the order and timings had no notable effect on the outcome. This further assured the public and complainants that there was no reason to question the producers actions and that Leon won not by a fluke of running order but because he gained the most votes.
It was not a case of "letting them off" as you suggest. They outright stated that the production team did nothing wrong and that the final was conducted fairly and appropriately. They did not say that "the production teams actions were a bit dubious and did breach the code, but hey, it didn't make a difference so we won't bother upholding the complaints." It's not as though OFCOM were going particularly easy on ITV in that bulletin, either.
It is also worth noting that the X Factor adjudication was a very different scenario. Voting lines were open when the performances in question took place. Had the producers left a gap of 30 minutes of filler after Leon performed where Rhydian fans had 30 seconds after his performance to cast a vote then there would have been a problem. The lines don't open until everyone has had one performance on BGT.
What do you propose OFCOM would suggest to get around the problem? That they split the screens and have multiple acts perform at the same time so as everyone gets the same audience at the same time?
On BGT everyone has their lines open for the same amount of time. When the phone lines are opened, not only are all the numbers immediately run across the bottom of the screen, but an entire recap of the show follows a few minutes after.
Okay then would you not agree that if the lines last night were open for say another two minutes to tonights show that would be fair, as sure as hell I dont, and can say that if I am right and the lines tonight closed far faster, why was that, we could argue they were running out of time, but it also means it could be rigged if they know how very tight it is between the top three, so close them quick so the right result is got!!
Originally Posted by Green Goddess:
“Okay then would you not agree that if the lines last night were open for say another two minutes to tonights show that would be fair, as sure as hell I dont, and can say that if I am right and the lines tonight closed far faster, why was that, we could argue they were running out of time, but it also means it could be rigged if they know how very tight it is between the top three, so close them quick so the right result is got!!”
“Okay then would you not agree that if the lines last night were open for say another two minutes to tonights show that would be fair, as sure as hell I dont, and can say that if I am right and the lines tonight closed far faster, why was that, we could argue they were running out of time, but it also means it could be rigged if they know how very tight it is between the top three, so close them quick so the right result is got!!”
I think I know what you mean now. Just that the time that all the lines were open was less than usual?
The actual schedule for the lines opening and closing was the same as every other night. They opened after the final performance and closed after an ad break and those awful clips of everyone begging. It is possible that varying lengths of ad breaks, judges comments and the begging VT could have changed it but not by much.
Also, the lines can't be shut at the flick of a switch either. They need to notify the audience first and obviously the decision needs to be communicated between Fountain Studios and the operators. When you have only 10 minutes or so of voting, that one minute that it may take has the potential to totally change the vote if it is really tight as you say and when there is capacity for up to 200,000 calls a minute.
Originally Posted by Fizix:
“Oh what is with these threads!
1. Opening the lines as soon as the first act goes on is blatently favoring the first act. They would have 90 minutes of voting time while the last act would have 10 minutes.
Stupid idea
2. The ad breaks are defined by contract, they are where they fall and the shows have to plot around them; not the other way around. Don't like it; go watch BBC as thats only network in this country that don't have ad breaks.
Hell go spend some time in America; they have more ad's and longer ad space too. So this effect would be more predominant.
3. They don't feature every act like they do the favourites due to air time. There is a reason they favour certain acts too; because they are the most likely people will like.
And there is the big point; ITV don't choose favourites because they happen to like the person; its because people are more likely to buy into that person.
TV is an expensive game, rating battles are cut throat. If they were hyping up a mediocre dance troup or a naff magic act then the show would loose a lot of credibility.
The acts that have gone through have been no suprise either. Not one act to go through has suprised me in the slightest.
When BGT is on; there are hot shows on other channels - not just terrestial but sky/virginmedia as well. BGT has to compete with these shows.
If they put on the best of the night up at the beginning or close to the beginning; lots of viewers will stray to other channels. This happens on every TV program; why shouldn't it be any difference here.
People just like conspiracy theories; 99% of which are BS. Don't like how BGT is run; switch off.
Don't like how TV is run; switch it off.
I wish we could say its a nice day outside so go outside instead - sadly this is Britain so it ain't”
“Oh what is with these threads!
1. Opening the lines as soon as the first act goes on is blatently favoring the first act. They would have 90 minutes of voting time while the last act would have 10 minutes.
Stupid idea
2. The ad breaks are defined by contract, they are where they fall and the shows have to plot around them; not the other way around. Don't like it; go watch BBC as thats only network in this country that don't have ad breaks.
Hell go spend some time in America; they have more ad's and longer ad space too. So this effect would be more predominant.
3. They don't feature every act like they do the favourites due to air time. There is a reason they favour certain acts too; because they are the most likely people will like.
And there is the big point; ITV don't choose favourites because they happen to like the person; its because people are more likely to buy into that person.
TV is an expensive game, rating battles are cut throat. If they were hyping up a mediocre dance troup or a naff magic act then the show would loose a lot of credibility.
The acts that have gone through have been no suprise either. Not one act to go through has suprised me in the slightest.
When BGT is on; there are hot shows on other channels - not just terrestial but sky/virginmedia as well. BGT has to compete with these shows.
If they put on the best of the night up at the beginning or close to the beginning; lots of viewers will stray to other channels. This happens on every TV program; why shouldn't it be any difference here.
People just like conspiracy theories; 99% of which are BS. Don't like how BGT is run; switch off.
Don't like how TV is run; switch it off.
I wish we could say its a nice day outside so go outside instead - sadly this is Britain so it ain't
”
We're talking about television phone voting here, not American Presidents.
I don't know much about JFK and the magic bullet theory, but I do know that from looking at the Ofcom findings reported in the news over the last couple of years it appears that many of these television phone-in 'conspiracy theories' have manifested themselves as 'conspiracy facts'.
That might imply that people should have an open mind and always be prepared to question what we're told by our televisions. Just because I'm always told that Simon Cowell is 'so honest' doesn't mean that I should just blindly believe it just because it says so on telly.
Originally Posted by C14E:
“I think I know what you mean now. Just that the time that all the lines were open was less than usual?
The actual schedule for the lines opening and closing was the same as every other night. They opened after the final performance and closed after an ad break and those awful clips of everyone begging. It is possible that varying lengths of ad breaks, judges comments and the begging VT could have changed it but not by much.
Also, the lines can't be shut at the flick of a switch either. They need to notify the audience first and obviously the decision needs to be communicated between Fountain Studios and the operators. When you have only 10 minutes or so of voting, that one minute that it may take has the potential to totally change the vote if it is really tight as you say and when there is capacity for up to 200,000 calls a minute.”
“I think I know what you mean now. Just that the time that all the lines were open was less than usual?
The actual schedule for the lines opening and closing was the same as every other night. They opened after the final performance and closed after an ad break and those awful clips of everyone begging. It is possible that varying lengths of ad breaks, judges comments and the begging VT could have changed it but not by much.
Also, the lines can't be shut at the flick of a switch either. They need to notify the audience first and obviously the decision needs to be communicated between Fountain Studios and the operators. When you have only 10 minutes or so of voting, that one minute that it may take has the potential to totally change the vote if it is really tight as you say and when there is capacity for up to 200,000 calls a minute.”
Exactly my point yes it all looked the same but the time was not, it was shorter, and that as you say can make one hell of a difference.
I m a cynic and I dont trust Cowell I could throw him further!
I just think he asked this lot on last to enter, and if things were going to go wrong then he could have said shut the lines NOW... that is my point, in fact the producers are all in this as well, so they could have. I was just shocked, it was too quick.
And as the last poster has said many things have come to light to be rigged or wrong, and for that reason I think things need to change drastically. I preferred the vote all at one time for all acts, but have to say 10 mins is hardly long enough, there should be at least 20 mins to half hour. During that time people may even change who they vote for with 10 mins you are going to be lucky to even get through.
I still argue that having the best on every night last well their best not always the publics, was wrong, and people on this site noticed it.
Pop Idol never put the best on last all the time! if they had Will would never have won it.
Originally Posted by Vivadiva:
“BGT fixing who wins? What a surprise! But I have noticed that people are slowly beginning to see these sob stories for what they are.
I live rather near George and while it is not beautiful, it is nowhere near as bad as depiected on screen...”
“BGT fixing who wins? What a surprise! But I have noticed that people are slowly beginning to see these sob stories for what they are.
I live rather near George and while it is not beautiful, it is nowhere near as bad as depiected on screen...”
Yes, I don't really blame the contestants so much for that because I believe that it's more of a case of the producers trying to coax some sort of story out of them. The Andrew Johnston example is a case in point.
You can almost always hear them reciting lines which have become old chestnuts of cliches from talent shows/reality shows before. 'I really need it', 'It's my last chance', 'I need it to give my family a better life'. I think a lot of voters buy into this stuff and I do believe that it affects the decision making process.
I agree with you I am sure the producers prise stories out of some of them, while others are willing to blab them anyway.
None of the stories have affected who I like, I ignore that part as much as possible other than Scala that is, that has just made my blood boil, asked on the show! bloody cheek.
George and Signature for me were fab, and I really hope to see one of them win this, in fact I am amazed Signature are so far out on the bookies odds, maybe they have not seen the hits youtube has had!
None of the stories have affected who I like, I ignore that part as much as possible other than Scala that is, that has just made my blood boil, asked on the show! bloody cheek.
George and Signature for me were fab, and I really hope to see one of them win this, in fact I am amazed Signature are so far out on the bookies odds, maybe they have not seen the hits youtube has had!
Originally Posted by C14E:
“I think I know what you mean now. Just that the time that all the lines were open was less than usual?
The actual schedule for the lines opening and closing was the same as every other night. They opened after the final performance and closed after an ad break and those awful clips of everyone begging. It is possible that varying lengths of ad breaks, judges comments and the begging VT could have changed it but not by much.
Also, the lines can't be shut at the flick of a switch either. They need to notify the audience first and obviously the decision needs to be communicated between Fountain Studios and the operators. When you have only 10 minutes or so of voting, that one minute that it may take has the potential to totally change the vote if it is really tight as you say and when there is capacity for up to 200,000 calls a minute.”
“I think I know what you mean now. Just that the time that all the lines were open was less than usual?
The actual schedule for the lines opening and closing was the same as every other night. They opened after the final performance and closed after an ad break and those awful clips of everyone begging. It is possible that varying lengths of ad breaks, judges comments and the begging VT could have changed it but not by much.
Also, the lines can't be shut at the flick of a switch either. They need to notify the audience first and obviously the decision needs to be communicated between Fountain Studios and the operators. When you have only 10 minutes or so of voting, that one minute that it may take has the potential to totally change the vote if it is really tight as you say and when there is capacity for up to 200,000 calls a minute.”
The thing is though, that although that might not sound right or just, that's one thing that may actually be something which is legal and doesn't break any rules.
It might be 'wrong' as we see it, but it depends on what the rules are.
What you mean legal to have 10 mins one night, 7 the next 12 the next well if that is the case then we are ALL mugs, as the less time to vote the less votes, which could then state the night George got the biggest vote was due to it being open longer, maybe!
Sorry surely they have to have standard rules only one way to find out then! go and complain...
Sorry surely they have to have standard rules only one way to find out then! go and complain...
I still think it's odd that the last one on wins. I noticed it mid -week ( don't catch on quickly
) & wondered if Thursday/Friday's last act would win, which, of course, they did.
I agree that the voting public aren't stupid, but you don't have to be stupid to be manipulated. Could be a psychological ploy. And it's more likely to be the makers of the programme than ITV.
I'm sick of the sob stories, too. But, in the list of, 'it's for my children/mother/dead parent/'cos I'm being bulied/live on a rough estate/last chance saloon', let us not forget the last and the best, Paul Potts, ''cos I'm so 'umble' routine.
) & wondered if Thursday/Friday's last act would win, which, of course, they did.I agree that the voting public aren't stupid, but you don't have to be stupid to be manipulated. Could be a psychological ploy. And it's more likely to be the makers of the programme than ITV.
I'm sick of the sob stories, too. But, in the list of, 'it's for my children/mother/dead parent/'cos I'm being bulied/live on a rough estate/last chance saloon', let us not forget the last and the best, Paul Potts, ''cos I'm so 'umble' routine.
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