I'm glad Jodie won, because in many people's eyes she is the 'traditional' Nancy, and I, for one, unashamedly like 'traditional'.

Why do 'arty' types always turn there noses up at the phrase as though it's a dirty word. Why do we have to have new 'concepts' and 'twists' on age old classics that suddenly become 'Panto' if they don't have some radical change to them.

Charles Dickens was a great writer, visionary, and storyteller, If it ain't broke does it really need fixing!

Yes, it kept being brought out as if it was a dirty word. Made it sound like an insult to Jodie.

Jodie - you are exactly what people expect of Nancy - Jessie on the other hand is world class, amazing bravo, bravo!

You see, I like a good conceptual twist as much as the next "arty" type, but in this case, as far as I was concerned, the traditional option was just better than the "twist". I don't think either should be looked on as good or bad, just different.

It was them that gave us the choice of traditonal.....or raw....we wanted traditional

Let's face it, most of the audience who go to MT want traditional, otherwise they would go to some arty thing. It also explains why some non-traditional shows (eg Rent - which I love btw) don't do well in the WE when the traditional ones do.

You see, I think a good 'twist' (Oooh! ha! ha!) would have been having someone like Keisha or Cleo as Nancy. But they just didn't match up to some of the other girls talents.

(Are you a drama student by any chance Zan?)

Why did Nancy even have to be different when Oliver and Fagin are not remotely different to previous versions ?

Ah that's right, it was plain simple manipulation that they wanted a younger actress to win....pity.

[quote=muppetonastring;24133648]I'm glad Jodie won, because in many people's eyes she is the 'traditional' Nancy, and I, for one, unashamedly like 'traditional'.

Why do 'arty' types always turn there noses up at the phrase as though it's a dirty word. Why do we have to have new 'concepts' and 'twists' on age old classics that suddenly become 'Panto' if they don't have some radical change to them.

Charles Dickens was a great writer, visionary, and storyteller, If it ain't broke does it really need fixing![/QUOTE]

But the 'traditional' musical theatre 'Oliver' is very far from Charles Dickens' version, which is what I think CM wanted to get back to?

Traditional is better for the main person, as with jodie you get consistancy. Jessie, who is very hit and miss, would be better starting off in an understudy part, whilst getting more training so that her excellent performances are constant rather than occassional

I'm not so sure that the colour of Nancy is that big a twist, to be honest - Sonia Swaby wasn't white, and she was a phenominal Nancy in the last production (with Francesca as her Bet, I believe?).

(No, unfortunately not. I'd like to be though! )

With Cleo - not really in terms of colour - she was more the raw, street kid Andrew was after.

But hey! What am I on about! I love Jodie! She IS Nancy!

I'd dub Jodie a classic Nancy and I think that's clearly what most of the public want to see. And why not? As others have said they seem to have gone for classic Olivers and I don't think Rowan's going to go for anything too unusual as Fagin.

CM may have wanted to go for something more arty but I'll sure he'll be amply compensated by the money coming in.

Ah, sorry, I just thought with them being the two you chose, it was their only real similarity! Yeah, I liked Cleopatra's "street"-y ness, but like you say, she wasn't good enough just yet.

I can see the scene now - CM "Let's redefine Fagin. I want to cast Graham Norton. And Bill Sykes - how aboutAnthony Cotton? And we won't have the children as pickpockets - we'll make them ballet dancers instead."

Why was it only Nancy they wnted to redefine?

Colour was kind of part of it. You know, there have been endless debates about whether it would be right to have a black Nancy or even a black Oliver - and now apparently Jodie is too traditional!!!

For my mind, (although I've loved Jodie since the beginning!) she was Nancy when I saw her perform with Laurence. It was a duet. She was constantly connecting with him, not upstaging or anything. It was fun and it was warm - you could see how comfortable she made him.

One of the other girls (won't say which, don't wish to incur wrath) hardly looked at her Oliver ONCE during the whole routine. She was working the camera - they might have been performing two separate routines. Sexy and edgy - maybe. Nancy? No.

I noticed that one as well...................................

I heard CM wanted Fagin to be a Muslim who runs a halal butchers shop in the East End.

Oh, no I agree. With Keisha being one of my favourites, I was flying the flag for why a black Nancy made as much sense as a white one (or indeed, one of any colour!). I never really thought of it as being a twist as it were though, because there'd been non-white Nancys before - Sophie Okonedo was absolutely wonderful in the recent TV adaptation.

I think I might know what girl you're talking about as well.

pmsl!!!!

Twas VERY obvious! Even Papaboogie commented on it!

But then wasn't that just the way it was choreographed? Sam's routine didn't give her the same contact with Oliver that Jodie's and Jessie's did, but I presume the girls didn't decide for themselves how their routine would be moved. She did look at him when the routine allowed.

(I know you didn't say it was Sam, but you clearly couldn't be describing the other two, who had terrific interaction with their Olivers).

Oh, and as regards the "traditional" remarks about Jodie, didn't Fran get a similar remark in her final week about being "musical theatre in an old-fashioned way"? They obviously had ideas about what they wanted to do with the character which wouldn't really have worked with either Fran or Jodie.

Nothing at all to some people.

Obviously everyone has different taste though. It's all down to personal opinion.

And you can't please everyone *shrug*

I don't think there's anything wrong with traditional. But ALW should stop setting these non-traditional ideals he wants to find from these shows. He wanted a Maria who was a tomboy and wasn't like Julie Andrews, and got Connie who was more like Julie Andrews than any Maria I've ever seen. He wanted a Joseph who was a Justin Timberlake-a-like, and got Lee. He wanted Amy Winehouse for Nancy, and got Jodie.

Connie and Lee have both sold lots of tickets - I see no reason why Jodie won't either. And as long as tickets are being sold, I see no reason why CM has any reason to grumble.

Which makes me wonder why CM is so concerned. Is it:

- He really thinks Jessie is a star?
- He is worried that Jodie won't put bums on seats? At leasty, not after a honeymoon period whjere the IDA fans turn up.
- He is worried that Jodie will get slated by the critics?
- He is worried about his professional reputation within the industry, and with the rest of the cast? And he wants a quality pro as nancy.

...c'os I think Jodie will be alright, and possibly better.

I don't think there's anything wrong with tradtional..... but ....

I think what CM was looking for in his Nancy...was someone more true to the original Dickens character......I get the feeling that the direction of this production is going to be more naturalistic, stripped back.....Obviously I'm just reading between the lines here..... but it makes sense when I look at the Olivers they've chosen.

So the "twist" if any is going back to the orginal Dickens ... the rawness & darkness of that role.

When CM used the world "traditional" to describe Jodie ..I guess he meant she was the more clean cut and obvious MT version. It chimes with the gloss V grit criticism last week.....and I can see his point....although I think Jodie is great.