Lee seems to me to be a man with two sides to his character. He is very extrovert, and this can manifest itself in a good way, especially when things are going well and he is in a happy frame of mind. Look at him in Marrakesh with Lucinda and Sara; see how full of confidence he is, and how the two girls are enjoying being in his company.

But there does seem a darker side to him, when he becomes very aggressive and angry, sometimes for not much reason. His behaviour to Sara after Kevin's firing was one example, but there have been others; remember his fury in the restuarant task when he was asked to get black bin bags?

I think he is essentially a decent guy, but this is a very off-putting trait of his. Maybe being on The Apprentice will have done him a favour in this regard; if he's been watching I imagine he probably found himself cringing at the sight of himself snarling at a petite young woman. Maybe he'll be a little more aware in the future how he comes across at such times?

Whist I felt for Sara, I beleave Lee just went off on one which is bound to happen under pressure.

The fact he pointed to the others shows he is just pointing out what others say in their heads.

I think the 'pack mentality' thing comes out quite a lot especially when there are still quite a lot of them but they have been there long enough to have made connections and cliques - Lucinda definitely was ganged up on and so was Sara. That diminishes as the numbers drop and groups split up and personalities start to come out more.

I think it is human nature and happens a lot when you have groups living and working closely together like that.

He is my fave sara was a weak link.

It is not bullying according to Raef on GMTV this morning but 'inarticulate enthusiasm'.

I felt that too but this year bully seems to be the buzz word associated with 'the apprentice' even SAS is a bully according to some. Political correctness gone haywire.

However I will accept there have been some bullying in the female side this year. But Lees outburst was not bullying even if it was not nice

I agree.

Having a loud argument with someone is now bullying.

Lee and Helene were both accused of bullying on the basis of being unnecessarily loud and forceful.

In each case their behaviour was not ideal (although Lucinda gave as good as she got and actually initiated the shouting), but comes nowhere close to what could be described as bullying.

Compared to the shouting match between Saira and Paul on the last episode of S1 neither of these incidents even registered on the Richter Scale.

Sara said she didn't feel it was bullying but that was ganged up against - as it was aimed at her, we ought to accept that that was what she felt.

It was inappropriate in that, as Ruth Badger said on TV this morning, when you get back from the boardroom you feel totally exhausted and as though you have been through several rounds with a tiger, so all you want is a hug and to relax. You do not expect to have that mauling continue from your colleagues including people who were not even in your team.

With the editing, we have no idea if she did get a hug and an chance to relax before that incident. All we can say is that she hadn't changed her clothes.

That's true. All we know is that she herself said she felt ganged up against, she was not given a chance to defend herself and she looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights. She also said she saw a counsellor about it afterwards and had considered leaving. Raef also said on GMTV that he felt very uncomfortable whilst it was happening and that's why he stepped in.

Well we can't really do that can we? Otherwise we could apply that to everything and say things like Lucinda said she definetely wanted to do the technical things in the photography as she wanted to learn. Or that Lee told everyone to start on Sara and it was all edited out. We can't assume things we have no proof of.

I must be missing something because I think that's what I said.

Yes, you are missing something.

You make a comment that suggests that we cannot draw any inferences based upon what we see

The response we got was that it's unrealistic to take that approach because if you do you really cannot believe anything much at all.

Yes, you can say that something might have happened and base your opinion on that but if you are going to go down that road you can effectively deny the truth of anything and everything that you see on the screen.

Got that, albeit not quite so universal - just a response to a point blank assertion by Ruth Badger that Sara was mauled as soon as she walked in.


That's where you lose me as the response was that you can't not draw inferences because otherwise you can "say things like Lucinda said she definetely wanted to do the technical things in the photography as she wanted to learn. Or that Lee told everyone to start on Sara." Which of course, you can't if you don't draw inferences.

Bingo. Well said.

Judging by his behaviour on other occasions, Lee doesn't seem to be a bully (well, in my opinion)... but the way he spoke to Sara was rude, aggressive, unnecessary, and really rather arrogant.

Actually we know she got at least one hug, because we saw Lucinda give her one.

Seems like Lee isn't as guilty and Sara isn't as innocent as you all assumed.

Never thought he was but he was easy bashing for some

Until then they had nothing much to bash him with

Does it? I accept that the "any of you" that was apparently cut puts a different perspective on what Lee said, but in the context of what else was going on at the time, it would still have come over as principally directed at her, even if Lee didn't mean it to be. I stick to my opinion of him; he's basically a good guy, but he could really do with thinking about how he's coming across.

And if Sara told Claire to shut the f*** up, good for her. Hardly makes her "not innocent", given the provocation.

Alex's offering only makes me more glad than ever I don't have to work with him, frankly.

That is what I remember - and imo exposed a weakness - putting his mouth into gear based on hearsay.
He was not even on the same team as Sara - so how the hell would he know what occurred?

Muttley - I've got the champagne on ice for an Alex win. I am of course perverse - but oh the anticipated joy when the Alex haters metamorphose into lemmings and commit mass suicide.

I doubt any intention to bully - I also doubt the 'inarticulate enthusiasm' excuse. He turned on Sara without any knowledge of her performance in the task except hearsay, thus instigating gang mentality. imo it was a black mark against Lee - but on many occasions he has redeemed himself.

This is what I felt - Sara was being kicked when she was already down.


Raef stepped in without drama and without exacerbating feelings which were already running high; he recognised the gang mentality undertone and, with the voice of moderation, calmed troubled waters.

Class Act.

Although his behaviour seemed to deviate from the norm and was perhaps alcohol induced, "In vino veritas," does spring to mind!


I'm trying hard to see your point of view - but at the end of the day he attacked the performance of someone who was not even on his team!

I don't know if Helene is a compulsive liar or she simply forgets what really happened!! Sara didn't tell Claire to "shut the **** up". Sara said to the camera "I feel like telling Claire to shut the **** up" and Claire was really giving her a hard time.

As for Lee, He should have apologised for it and I believe there was at least a part of it aimed at Sara!! In the same interview, he also failed to admit that he lied in his CV. I really hope that this interview omits a large part of what the finalists actually say.

Helene seems in that quote to be saying that Sara said this after we left the argument, which seemed to be still going strong. All the candidates will, of course, have said and done plenty of things we didn't see.

Don't you think that it is a bit strange that Helene remembers Sara's exact words after 6 months of them actually being said?!! They also happen to be the same words Sara said to the camera!!

Sara said that she felt like saying those words but she didn't say them. Even if they continued the argument, Helene didn't attend this argument as she was with the sales subteam.

Claire and Sara later argued in the kitchen and Sara didn't defend herself very well. It was actually Helene who defended Sara. If Helene thought that Sara said those words to Claire, why did she intervene?!!!

I also believe that if Sara said those words to claire, they would have been included in the final edit instead of including Sara talking to the camera. They always seem to air the worst bits of the arguments between the candidates.

I think we're at cross purposes. As far as I'm understanding it, Helene is referring to the argument in the house after Kevin's firing. I may be inferring this wrongly, but it's how I read it.

We left this argument as Raef was intervening and Alex continuing to criticise Sara, and went to an external shot of the house with the sounds of raised voices continuing. I'm reading it that Helene is saying that this went on for at least a little while after we left it, and eventually Sara told Claire to shut the f*** up. Whether this is true or not, I don't know. Claire actually didn't seem to be attacking Sara in the house; in fact, she was almost defending her, as she insisted that it wasn't really Sara's fault that they'd lost the task. I think it was Jenny who really needed to be told to shut up.

Sara said on the You're Fired programme that Lee had apologised to her afterwards.