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Why would you lie about studying at Thames Valley University?


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Old 05-06-2008, 03:49
tim887
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On one level Lee comes across as thick and doesn't deserve the job. And notice I say 'thick' and not 'uneducated.' Unless he is in fact highly intelligent and has an agenda that is certainly beyond me.

Firstly he was too thick - or perhaps naive - to realise that every detail of his C.V. would be scrutinised; more so than for a normal job. What if he was in jail for the two missing years and is in fact a convicted sex offender? It wasn't a gamble with which he got unlucky, he just didn't (or couldn't) think it through.

Secondly his C.V. was littered with spelling mistakes. Fine on here, but criminal on a C.V. One may be excused, but several in one sentence? Whether thick or lazy, in most jobs it'd go straight in the bin. As someone who'd worked in recruitment, that is unforgivable.

Thirdly, the fact that he didn't seem to 'get' the fact that he doesn't lack a degree because he was too thick to get into University, but because he dropped out for whatever reason. Perhaps it was because he felt inferior whilst there, but it's not the same thing, and would have been problematic if he hadn't lied to cover it up.

On the basis of the above, if he gets the job now it'd be a travesty.

However...

He is clearly a very good salesman, and people seem to like working with him. He was never taken into the boardroom, so he must have something going for him.

There are plenty of jobs that he appears to be very much suited too that pay a lot of money and have good prospects.

He appears to have some issues with self esteem, but not badly enough to stop him applying in the first place.

Win or lose, I'm sure there'll [quite rightly] be a lot of very good job offers waiting for him, and watching the programme back, he'll hopefully see that his lack of formal education didn't hamper him in any way whatsoever. And the irony is, until tonight, I'd no idea whether he'd been to University or not!

Hopefully this will let him see that it's not his education itself that'll hold him back in life, but his own, deep-seated belief that it will. Well that and the fact that he can't be bothered to use a spell checker.

He comes across as a decent bloke, and I hope he does well for himself. And prospects-wise, I'd much rather be him than most of them!
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Old 05-06-2008, 04:09
Northern_Light
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I'm pretty sure most of us have embellished a few details on our CV's, but to do it when applying for The Apprentice wasn't the brightest move. Surely he knew the details of his previous work/studies would have been rigourously checked out? It's not a case of where he went to university, it's the fact he felt the need to lie about dropping out after four months. Many people go on to be high achievers without degrees and many people drop out of courses, so a lack of academic qualifications is not something to be ashamed of. Lee, who works in recruitment should know that more than anyone.
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Old 05-06-2008, 04:16
Scissor*Sister
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I am not liking this thread. It's full of university snobbery.
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Old 05-06-2008, 08:08
Esqualita
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Tim who won the first series went to TVU.
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Old 05-06-2008, 09:58
daintydaisy
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I Don't like university snobbery, its pathetic.
I dont like Lee but his lie was nt a big one. It would have been much worse if he had lied about going to uni in the first place. He should have been upfront he didnt come clean quickly which i didnt like.
I hope the spelling mistakes are undiagnosed dyslexia and not laziness.
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Old 05-06-2008, 10:13
Agent Krycek
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As someone who's CV contains massive works of fiction when it comes to my educational background I do completely get where Lee was coming from. Would I change my CV if I went on The Apprentice, probably not, I'd take the risk, however I would spellcheck it, and then get someone else to check it for me.
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Old 05-06-2008, 12:13
tropical
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Thames Valley Lol pretty much the worst uni the UK. I find Lee to be very thick as evidenced by his spelling and the way he expresses himself. Would hate to work with someone like that but fortunately all my colleagues (at uni) are very very clever people.

But maybe I'm an academic snob, just about to finish my 1st year studying Engineering at Imperial College Life is good.
Well considering you are at such a prestigious university, I find it hilarious to see that you can't express yourself very articulately either.

Let's be honest, you may be book smart but Lee is very street smart. Intelligence is not just measured by how many degrees you have or which university you could afford to go to. And I would definitely take out the word 'maybe' from: 'But maybe I'm an academic snob.' Frankly I don't see why you find that is something to gloat about.

Last edited by tropical : 05-06-2008 at 12:14. Reason: ...
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Old 05-06-2008, 12:24
LaurieMarlow
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Well considering you are at such a prestigious university, I find it hilarious to see that you can't express yourself very articulately either.

Let's be honest, you may be book smart but Lee is very street smart. Intelligence is not just measured by how many degrees you have or which university you could afford to go to. And I would definitely take out the word 'maybe' from: 'But maybe I'm an academic snob.' Frankly I don't see why you find that is something to gloat about.
Troyston is very young, obviously. I've seen so many people like him, at prestigious Unis and they think they have the world at their feet. Nothing wrong with that, it's a lovely position to be in. But the transfer from the charmed life of University to the working world can be a tough one. Suddenly, nobodys gives a rats ass how you've done in your exams. You're at the very bottom of the food chain and you don't know squat. It'll come to him in time and it can be a hard adjustment to make.

Anyway, Lee is obviously very capable and his results speak for themselves. I'm astonished that he felt the need to lie about this and I think he's done himself damage. Shame.
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Old 05-06-2008, 12:47
tropical
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Troyston is very young, obviously. I've seen so many people like him, at prestigious Unis and they think they have the world at their feet. Nothing wrong with that, it's a lovely position to be in. But the transfer from the charmed life of University to the working world can be a tough one. Suddenly, nobodys gives a rats ass how you've done in your exams. You're at the very bottom of the food chain and you don't know squat. It'll come to him in time and it can be a hard adjustment to make.

Anyway, Lee is obviously very capable and his results speak for themselves. I'm astonished that he felt the need to lie about this and I think he's done himself damage. Shame.
I'd definitely agree with you about the transfer from uni to the work place. It's a whole new ball game! But considering troyston's comment that he is in his first year at university, that would make him the same age as me. And yet I would find it incredibly uncomfortable to display the snobbery that he so proudly speaks of. I guess I have had the opportunity to meet people who do not come from fortunate backgrounds with strong academic credentials. Yet I can appreciate that often they are way more aware, on the ball and smart than me. I just hate the attitude that people hold that intelligence is only measured by degrees or a-levels etc.
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Old 05-06-2008, 12:56
Marmite Baby
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As someone who's CV contains massive works of fiction when it comes to my educational background I do completely get where Lee was coming from. Would I change my CV if I went on The Apprentice, probably not, I'd take the risk, however I would spellcheck it, and then get someone else to check it for me.
Lee would have been proud of that one.
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Old 05-06-2008, 12:58
Peter E
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Why would you lie about staying at TVU for a qualification? It is one of the worst universities in the UK!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle2131563.ece

Lee might as well said he was at Oxford!

Exactly!!

Lee is one of those people who's loud, got a lot of bravado and acts the 'big man' but when it comes to the crunch, they're useless.

Lucinda should have stayed yesterday just for going to a better university (Lucinda went to the University of Manchester).
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Old 05-06-2008, 12:59
Agent Krycek
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Lee would have been proud of that one.

I can't spell either Lee may possibly be my soulmate
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Old 05-06-2008, 13:00
Vicar2win
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Its annoying as I worked hard for 3 years to get my degree and then theres someone just making up a degree like that. hmmm
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Old 05-06-2008, 13:04
Peter E
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Its annoying as I worked hard for 3 years to get my degree and then theres someone just making up a degree like that. hmmm


Exactly, same here. I worked my socks off to get my degree from a top uni, then others come along and make them up. It's so annoying.
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Old 05-06-2008, 13:05
fairypenny
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i went to uni rather than get a job after school. that decision was right for ME. lee shouldn't have to feel insecure because he did the opposite - that's obviously proved to be the right path for him, as he's got to be quite good at what he does to have earned a place on the show.
i hate it when people assume that those who haven't been to uni are thick, or not as good as others. there are people in my workplace who are around my age (23) who didn't go to uni, and whilst the thought of having gone out and worked at 18 scares the pants off me, they obviously weren't as apprehensive and chose a different route. people go to uni for different reasons; for me, it was because i didn't know what i wanted to do exactly, but i definitely wanted to get as much education as i could, because i felt that would make me more marketable than someone who just dossed about trying to find out what there was out there. i didn't feel 'grown-up' enough at 18 to go into the workplace. those three years really helped me grow as a person and gain the confidence to function in the workplace.
lee may have been forced into supporting himself early, but he's made good and he shouldn't be ashamed of himself. he seems like a nice guy, although this spelling thing does make me wonder if he might be a bit dyslexic.
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Old 05-06-2008, 13:07
dome
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Its annoying as I worked hard for 3 years to get my degree and then theres someone just making up a degree like that. hmmm

He didn't claim to have a degree.

He didn't even claim he was on a degree course.

Which makes it all the more foolish.
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Old 05-06-2008, 13:17
Summat2Say
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He didn't claim to have a degree.

He didn't even claim he was on a degree course.

Which makes it all the more foolish.
Yes, but we don't know the circumstances. I'm sticking to my theory that he had a load of crap jobs and periods of unemployment: these would have looked awful and messy on a CV so he buried the lot in extending the time that he was at college. He never claimed he finished the course or qualified and probably thought that no one would check because he quit anyway . . . why check someone's admission of failure?
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Old 05-06-2008, 13:20
dome
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Yes, but we don't know the circumstances. I'm sticking to my theory that he had a load of crap jobs and periods of unemployment: these would have looked awful and messy on a CV so he buried the lot in extending the time that he was at college. He never claimed he finished the course or qualified and probably thought that no one would check because he quit anyway . . . why check someone's admission of failure?

There must have been a few red flags in his CV that made them check up.
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Old 05-06-2008, 13:21
mouthalmighty
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He didn't claim to have a degree.

He didn't even claim he was on a degree course.

Which makes it all the more foolish.
Quite. It was a catering course, wasn't it?

I've been doing the job I do for ten years, but if I were to apply for it today, I wouldn't even merit an interview because I don't have a degree.

I suspect I'd just make one up if I ever needed to change jobs. I'm probably old enough that the records don't go back that far that it could be checked.

I thought most people told porkies on their resumé...
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Old 05-06-2008, 13:27
nanamoan
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I Don't like university snobbery, its pathetic.
I dont like Lee but his lie was nt a big one. It would have been much worse if he had lied about going to uni in the first place. He should have been upfront he didnt come clean quickly which i didnt like.
I hope the spelling mistakes are undiagnosed dyslexia and not laziness.
I agree... I think that the guy who pointed these out was on some sort of mission to down him following the uni slip up. Trying to make him feel "uneducated" rather than considering there may have been some other factor... I thought the whole thing was quite scummy & snobbish to be honest (Alex going on about his private education every 5 secs - who the **** cares) and btw did anyone ever check on Michael's claim to be a "good honest Jewish boy" ... I suspect it was only the "boy" bit that was true and hence SAS going on and on about his age everytime he went in the boardroom!!!
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Old 05-06-2008, 13:48
fancypinkelepha
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I thought most people told porkies on their resumé...
It beggars belief that people expect lies. I've often wondered what is the point of CVs and now I know there is no point.

The problem with Lee is he lied and got found out. Would you employ him?
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Old 05-06-2008, 13:49
Summat2Say
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There must have been a few red flags in his CV that made them check up.
I think that each of the candidate's CVs would have been checked thoroughly as the last thing the BBC would want is something really dodgy. Hopefully, that was the worst thing they found.
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Old 05-06-2008, 14:07
LaurieMarlow
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I'd definitely agree with you about the transfer from uni to the work place. It's a whole new ball game! But considering troyston's comment that he is in his first year at university, that would make him the same age as me. And yet I would find it incredibly uncomfortable to display the snobbery that he so proudly speaks of. I guess I have had the opportunity to meet people who do not come from fortunate backgrounds with strong academic credentials. Yet I can appreciate that often they are way more aware, on the ball and smart than me. I just hate the attitude that people hold that intelligence is only measured by degrees or a-levels etc.
I agree. However, one of the things I have learnt since I was a first year uni student, is that the kinds of skills that get you good exam results and the kind of skills that make you successful in the work place have really nothing to do with each other. And once you land your first job, your academic qualifications become pretty meaningless.

But I do think it's sad that our education system privileges this kind of academic achievement. It means that the non academic types assume that they'll be failures and it can often take a long time for them to build up their confidence and tap into the other skills they have that will help them in the work place. The academic types assume that they have it made and when they find themselves in a working environment, they come down to earth with a bump and it's a shock to find out that what got you a first class degree isn't going to help you make deals.

It's not really fair on anyone.
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Old 05-06-2008, 14:23
Alrightmate
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I Don't like university snobbery, its pathetic.
I dont like Lee but his lie was nt a big one. It would have been much worse if he had lied about going to uni in the first place. He should have been upfront he didnt come clean quickly which i didnt like.
I hope the spelling mistakes are undiagnosed dyslexia and not laziness.
Possibly not,...but it implies a bigger lie.
The bigger lie being is that qualifications are important to him.
Because if you see his lie on his application form being a minor one, it leads onto another lie that he cares about his lack of qualifications.

If a lack of academic qualifications are such a big issue with him then why did he drop out after only four months?
Surely if academic qualifications were that important to him he'd be striving to complete that degree course wouldn't he?
Stick with the course and try to complete it and he gets the qualification that he claims to be important to him.
Quit, and it implies that he wasn't that bothered about the qualification anyway.

Would Alan Sugar see it from that angle?

In a way it's a bit like Jenny's Kosher lie leading on to another lie about her trusting Michael's Jewishness.
A lie that can open up to reveal another lie.
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Old 05-06-2008, 14:47
Sara Webb
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Secondly his C.V. was littered with spelling mistakes. Fine on here, but criminal on a C.V.
Er... hello? I take your point, but perhaps his spelling mistakes are due to a learning diability? If that is the case, he should definitely have used a spellchecker to correct himself.

If a lack of academic qualifications are such a big issue with him then why did he drop out after only four months?
Surely if academic qualifications were that important to him he'd be striving to complete that degree course wouldn't he?
Stick with the course and try to complete it and he gets the qualification that he claims to be important to him.
Quit, and it implies that he wasn't that bothered about the qualification anyway.
If qualifications are genuinely important to Lee, perhaps he was ashamed or embarrassed by his lack of academic achievement. I am NOT saying that he should feel this way, just suggesting that that's one reason people lie about such things.

I was shouting at the tv at that point, as Lee had no need to lie considering that his potential boss is "a simple lad from Hackney" without much formal education. (That is Alan Sugar's own description of himself on DS, and yes it was proven to be him, in case anyone wants to argue. http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...8&postcount=30 ).

He'd have been better off not bothering. Lee, I mean, not Sir Alan. Ethical debate aside, it was daft to lie about something that can so eaily be verified.
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