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Why would you lie about studying at Thames Valley University?


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Old 05-06-2008, 15:24
marks thespot
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Didn't you listen at all, Lee explained about 10 times it was because he felt personally that people would look down on him if he didn't say he went to university and misjudge him to be a stupid man.
But, despite so-called University snobbery from some people,I think the reverse is true of SAS. He seems to actually despise well-educated and academically well qualified people. I don't think either Helene or Claire went on to higher education, not sure about Alex after his public school. He has chosen finalists from The University of Life...

Lee would have been better off emphasising that he had gone out to work as soon as he was able and made his own way in the world - like the others.
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Old 05-06-2008, 15:28
Sara Webb
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It beggars belief that people expect lies.
I mean absolutely no disrespect to you, but that seems rather naive to me. Your integrity is entirely commendable and is also quite right, but let's face facts: CV embellishment is very common, particularly in the overcrowded graduate market.

Most people, however, have the sense not to lie about things that can be easily checked out - it is rather moronic to lie about qualifications as they can be established as hard fact. Fictionally adding to the extent of one's responsibilities in a former job role is easy, if you have enough experience of the the thing you're lying about not to get found out. I am certainly not saying it is right, but it is a fact of life and is quite normal these days. That's how it is.

Back in 2003, My best friend wanted very much to get onto a graduate police training scheme. When he filled out the form, he had to answer several "Describe a time when..." questions. He had no experience of the sort of situation the question referred to. His sister told him to be honest and just explain that he hadn't experienced it and to explain what he would do in that situation. I told him that this would be fatal and that he was digging his grave. Guess who was right? He didn't get the job (for which he was qualified) for this reason, and he was devastated.

Again, it isn't right, but the reality of the matter is that if you are up against a candidate who is equally qualified, if they can stretch the truth convincingly and subtly enough when you don't, then in most cases they will beat you hands down. Integrity isn't as highly valued as it should be, unfortunately, and seems to be less and less common these days.
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Old 05-06-2008, 15:33
tropical
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But, despite so-called University snobbery from some people,I think the reverse is true of SAS. He seems to actually despise well-educated and academically well qualified people. I don't think either Helene or Claire went on to higher education, not sure about Alex after his public school. He has chosen finalists from The University of Life...

Lee would have been better off emphasising that he had gone out to work as soon as he was able and made his own way in the world - like the others.
Yes, throughout the series he seems to really not give a damn about the university educated, academic candidates. But then surprisingly I always find that those are the candidates that he actually hires in the end. Biggest example is probably Simon from last year, who looked like he didnt have the slightest chance since Sir Alan didnt seem to care about his qualifications but then ended up winning!! By the way, iirc Clare did a degree in equine science so not strictly true.
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Old 05-06-2008, 16:27
sosomode
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I have nothing against those without a university education. To be honest I only really respect top unis anyway i.e. Oxbridge, Imperial, LSE, UCL and a few others. HOWEVER Lee is thick. I'm sure there will be tasks that Sir Allan might want to assign to him that he would be incapable of doing because he's just not clever enough.
There are about 15-20 really good universities in the UK; Warwick, Bristol, Durham, St Andrews, Edinburgh, York, SOAS etc are all top class universities. Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool and co are pretty solid too and then you have the small, specialist places like Aberystwyth and Keele that are just as good.

Imperial isnt that great anyway, its certainly doesnt have a great world reputation.
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Old 05-06-2008, 16:41
Sara Webb
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There are about 15-20 really good universities in the UK; Warwick, Bristol, Durham, St Andrews, Edinburgh, York, SOAS etc are all top class universities. Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool and co are pretty solid too and then you have the small, specialist places like Aberystwyth and Keele that are just as good.

Imperial isnt that great anyway, its certainly doesnt have a great world reputation.
Cambridge's maths department is appalling. The top universities all have some very weak spots.
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Old 05-06-2008, 17:07
Alrightmate
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But, despite so-called University snobbery from some people,I think the reverse is true of SAS. He seems to actually despise well-educated and academically well qualified people. I don't think either Helene or Claire went on to higher education, not sure about Alex after his public school. He has chosen finalists from The University of Life...

Lee would have been better off emphasising that he had gone out to work as soon as he was able and made his own way in the world - like the others.
Yes I agree with all that. Good post.
Doctors, lawyers, risk assessors, scientists, anything like that and you've practically no chance.

He also tends to select very young candidates.

Just a quick question....In each series so far, have the eventual winners been the youngest of that year's candidates? Or at least second youngest?
He certainly hasn't picked any of the candidates over 30.
Which would favour Alex somewhat.
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Old 05-06-2008, 17:11
Sara Webb
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He was very quick to boot Ghazal and cited her youth as a major factor.
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Old 05-06-2008, 17:33
Minky_Bum
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Personally, I'd rather employ someone without a degree than a liar.

Why did Lee feel the need to lie anyway - it's well known that SAS didn't go to uni. The man interviewing him also gave him a chance to admit what he'd done and he tried to lie more. He's a fake bullshitter.
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Old 05-06-2008, 17:38
Powervator
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EDIT


ooops wrong thread
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Old 05-06-2008, 17:41
Powervator
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I feel amazed that the production people even accepted people who didn't go to university! I thought it should be at least a pre-requisite nowadays. Older people perhaps should be let off but there is no excuse in this day and age to not have at least some higher education.

I am slightly biased but Brasenose served me very well personally.
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Old 05-06-2008, 17:44
kates89
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I think it would be better for his CV to say he didn't go to uni at all rather than to say he went to TVU!
*hides from any TVU-ers*
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Old 05-06-2008, 17:53
Sara Webb
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I feel amazed that the production people even accepted people who didn't go to university! I thought it should be at least a pre-requisite nowadays. Older people perhaps should be let off but there is not excuse in this day and age to not have at least some higher education.

I am slightly biased but Brasenose served me very well personally.
Having built himself up from scratch with nothing, Suralan couldn't enforce that one without being an utter hypocrite.

Forgive me but I think you're being a little short-sighted and more than slightly biased on this, and I say that as someone who is academic like yourself. What goes for you doesn't go for everyone, people are individuals and need to be viewed as such.

What of those who couldn't afford to go to university, or those who had other commitments early on, or those who were in circumstances that made higher ed impossible for them? What of all the intelligent, capable, vocationally-minded people who are just as well equipped to do the job, perhaps even more so than a graduate? Would you deny those people the chance because they don't have a degree?

I have always been a very academic person and did very well at university. My elder brother didn't go in for higher education because he is far more practical than I am. He has a great deal more relevant experience in his field, not to mention more common sense. He has worked his way up to a very high position within his field through sheer graft. Why on earth should he be denied a job that he is perfectly capable of doing because he didn't go to college????
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Old 05-06-2008, 18:03
LaurieMarlow
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I thought Powervator was joking.
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Old 05-06-2008, 18:06
kates89
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I thought Powervator was joking.
Well, the poster did go to Brasenose, Oxford so I don't think they were!
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Old 05-06-2008, 18:19
LaurieMarlow
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Well, the poster did go to Brasenose, Oxford so I don't think they were!
Ooh. That puts a slightly different slant on it.

Looks like we're thread hopping on the same threads Kate
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:11
Powervator
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I thought Powervator was joking.
I was joking actually.

I have the utmost respect for people who work straight from school and in many ways they are at an advantage in finding jobs.

I was trying to draw attention to the snobs that are posting here. It looks like I almost became one!
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:19
The Spoon
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Yes I agree with all that. Good post.
Doctors, lawyers, risk assessors, scientists, anything like that and you've practically no chance.

He also tends to select very young candidates.

Just a quick question....In each series so far, have the eventual winners been the youngest of that year's candidates? Or at least second youngest?
He certainly hasn't picked any of the candidates over 30.
Which would favour Alex somewhat.
however - he admires and respects Margaret...
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Old 06-06-2008, 13:08
CTUaholic
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Fact remains that he works in Recruitment so you would have thought his CV would be a work of art. Plus his girlfriend works in recruitment as well and is very well educated - I would have thought she would have checked it over for him? I still think he should win though as I do like him and he deserves it more than the others.
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Old 06-06-2008, 19:59
peely
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I actually did feel a bit sorry for him when I heard him say that he is embarrassed about his level of education etc, but I consider it a very stupid thing to do - this isn't the 1870s or whatever, and people without formal further education aren't looked down on; indeed, many people I work with (and for) consider it strange that I have a university education, as most of them started working straight out of school, or with maybe a year or so at college (although perhaps this says more for my lowly station in life than it does for the attitude of society in general ). Actually, I should think that most people are more impressed by someone who has done well in life and doesn't have a degree, rather than regarding its' absence as an impediment.

In this way, I think that Lee has shot himself in both feet!
1870s?????? Don't you mean the great divide in education arising from the period segregated between grammar schools and secondary moderns....wasn't that the 1930's or 40's. Even then, it was extremely difficult for grammar school children to get into really high office. I think Harold Wilson was the first prime minister to have gone to a grammar school, and that's about when i was born. University education wasn't even thought of by most people until the late 60's, early 70's. Its only in the last 20 years that people have been expected to have a university level education, but that causes new problems.

I think there is still a lot of inverted snobbery, and snobbery about educational background. For instance, I have a professional qualification, a degree and post grad degree, but since having kids, I have worked in an office where a lot of people don't, so I don't talk about it.

The type of jobs Lee is after, they do expect a university or professional qualification, so I understand his insecurities. It doesn't excuse lying, and he should have realised it would be checked, but if he can understand the reasons, SAS may give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:30
Sara Webb
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I was joking actually.
Oh dear. I do apologise for not picking up on that.

Personally I can understand why Lee might have done it, but you'd have thought he would have a little more sense. That said, many of the candidates from earlier years have had slightly suspicious CVs, so maybe he thought he'd get away with it. Daft.
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:51
apprentice_fan
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Why would you lie about staying at TVU for a qualification? It is one of the worst universities in the UK!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle2131563.ece

Lee might as well said he was at Oxford!
Using your logic:

Why would you check if someone had stayed at TVU for a qualification? It is one of the worst universities in the UK!
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:05
Esqualita
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Actually, I agree TVU isn't great as a university. I taught there for some time in the music faculty. Vile place. BUT...Lee was part of the catering school, which actually has a great reputation (Gary Rhodes went there).
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Old 10-06-2008, 15:30
somabc
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Imperial isnt that great anyway, its certainly doesnt have a great world reputation.
Not a good reputation?
Are you insane?

Times Higher Education Supplement World University Rankings

2nd in Europe and 6th in World for technology
3rd in Europe and 7th in World for life sciences and biomedicine
3rd in Europe and 13th in World for natural sciences
3rd in Europe and 5th in World overall

The Independent - Good University Guide 2009

1 Oxford
2 Cambridge
3 London School of Economics
3 Imperial College

Shanghai Jiao Tong (23rd World, 3rd Europe)
http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2007/ARWU2007_Top100.htm

http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/aboutimpe...eague_rankings
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