I've just noticed my rainbow cichlid has a red bloody lump on his tail fin. Its came up suddenly. there is also some tearing damage. He's in a four foot tank with a large synodontis, silver shark about 4" and the culprit which is a 5" green terror cichlid. I dont want to get rid of either cichlid as I've had them for ages but i realise I have to separate them. i have a 18" tank with 2 frogs, 3 x 1" shrimps, 1 danio and a peppered corydorus in it. The rainbow cichlid is about 3 - 3 and a half inches long. Can he go in with the frogs etc? I can't afford a bigger tank until the first of the month so it will only be temporary. Any other suggestions.

(this is going to be long winded so i apologise).

If you go to my previous posts by clicking on my name, then it will show you very recently I commented on another fishy thread. In there was another forum mentioned and link given - post on there, they're incredibly helpful and really know their stuff.



i apologise for not giving the link but i dont have it on this computer and couldnt remember how to get to my own previous posts. Hope you get it sorted. Fishkeeping isn't as easy as you would think!!

Not sure how experienced you are with Cichlids but I guess you know the basics when it comes to territory etc ?

How long have you had the fish, and how long have they been together ? When did you last change your setup / add any new fish etc

The Rainbow is an excellent community Cichlid, more suited to be tankmates with small livebearers/tetras and characins etc than bigger boisterous Cichlids.

I would have no problem putting it in with a cory or Danio, I take it that the frogs are not small enough to fit into his mouth (though I would worry about nipping the frogs - this happened when I put 2 dwarf clawed toed frogs in with some (supposedly) herbivorous Banded Chromide Cichlids.

Though I would worry about the shrimps.

"Though their diet in the wild mainly consists of algae, captive specimens thrive on prepared flake food as well as a variety of insect based foods, pellets and small portions of shrimp."

From http://www.cichlid-forum.com

Have you got any breeding traps or such like? I have and would put the shrimps and or frogs in that and float it in the same tank. It's only temporary anyway.

If you don't have a breeding trap you could use a net suspended into the water that would act like a keepnet for the shrimps/frogs for a couple of days. Failing that - the bottom of a pair of Tight's makes the same sort of net.

MY frog is in a trap at the moment to stop him eating my platy fry until they are large enough to not 'fit into his mouth'.

Btw, what sort of shrimp are they, anything like mountain river shrimp or the like are ok with a Rainbow anyway - My Dwarf frog (1")was quite happy with 11 Kribs (3" 's)in a 20 gallon, but found it difficult to get any food because they are too slow to feed.

Let me know.

I will look out for your previous post when I have finished my postings.

Fishkeeping of cichlids is not for the light hearted I agree LOL.

I'll also post the link when I find it so as you can add the site to your favourites.

Ann

Yeah I'm fairly experienced. Kept Malawis for years along with my ex but when we split he got them

I have had both the green terror and rainbow for around two and a half years. the green terror is now living up to his name. They were both around the same size when i bought them but the GT is now twice the RC size. The rainbow also has a little fight thing going with the large synodontis (don't know what its called). i was given the synodontis about 10 years ago and he had been owned by his previous owner for a couple of years and he had got him from another fish keeper who didn't have space for him so i reckon he's a pensioner!

I haven't changed my set up apart from the normal housekeeping stuff. There have been no fish added since I bought both these cichlids. I have had the silver shark for around 4 years. i bought the cichlids to replace my old firemouth who was ancient. when he died.

Ann

I have no idea what sort of shrimp they are. they are opaque but not glass if you know what i mean. they have grown really quickly to be around the same size as my one remaining danio (I had 7)

Shrimps (sorry for the crap quality)

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...1/ABCD0015.jpg

I have had the shrimps for around 18 months. At least once a month i think one has died because I find the empty shells lying about the tank. i now know they've just outgrown it.

The frogs I have had for 2 and a half and 3 years. When outstretched they are over 2 inches long. they too are slow feeders but its just because they are gormless and stupid. they only eat bloodworm which constipates the danio! The corydorus is normal sized.

I ried to get a picture of the RC but it hides away a lot now sadly. this is the beast though.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...1/ABCD0014.jpg

Do you think I'd be able to put a 3" RC into that community tank til i get another tank?


I may do as you suggest and float the shrimp in an improvised trap. I'll still worry for the danio, corydorus and frogs though LOL.

Ann

Here you are

http://www.fishforums.net/


Just click on your user name and a menu appears with stuff to do with you.

Ann, N_M is at work until this evening and he isn't allowed to access DS from there I'll be sure he sees this when he comes home to reply to you.

He's got loads of shrimps, we have one "ecological" tank of just shrimps and suchlike, so I think he'll know what yours are and hopefully be able to advise further!

Thank you.

Thank you for reminding me Mr M W OBWOOKE

BUMP

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

god I hope that isn't rude!!

Look, our above board and obviously legal Nigerian money deal will go much smoother if you don't tell the world about it.

Not because it's dodgy, oh no, but because they'll all want in on it.

Boomshanka

God bless Mr M W OBWOOKE

You are an imposter young man!! Mr M W OBWOOKE would not use such foul language as Boomshanka. Our money transfer is off!

Oh I read that wrong.

Misanthrope is god and he was blessing Mr M W OBWOOKE.

My apologies. deals on again.

Ann, Nice GT, he's got another 3 inches or so till he gets like this monster.

The 'Colourful' gravel does confuse the shrimp picture somewhat , but they look like Amano/Japonica shrimp.

The shrimps will be happy enough in a floating net/trap for a while (just put a few flakes or pellets in there, they won't care about anything else) - But, do try to keep it covered as they can jump when startled by you or the other fish.

The Cory will be fine with the RC anyway (even long term), Not many fish eat cory's because they have a defensive mechanism :

"Corydoras have a very sharp barb just under each eye, one in the adipose and a large one in the front of their dorsal fin. The fish uses these barbs to protect itself from being swallowed by a larger fish. Therefore when using a net to catch these fish, be prepared for the Cory to become caught up in the mesh of the net. Also, ensure you don't try to catch this fish in your hand! What is also little known is that certain species of Corydoras have a poison gland in their barbs which causes fish which try to eat them to get stung. This causes the attacking fish to suffer a lot of pain rather like a jellyfish sting. Needless to say this causes an annoying, but harmless, irritant to aquarists skin if they get stung also."

The RC is should be fine with the Frogs, too much of a mouthful for him and they have a general peaceful demeanour anyway, likewise the Danio (too fast) and usually spend most of the time in the top 1/4 level of the tank anyway. Only one thing I'd do is to put some small longish hidyholes in for the frogs to retreat to if they feel the need to hide/escape. Just chuck some Bloodworm in after lights out, the RC will settle down to bed and the frogs will hunt as they are nocturnal/Diurnal mostly (see how small their eyes are).

I dare say that the RC may have to permanently settle with the cory, frogs and the Danio if the GT starts to see the tank as 'his tank'. I'd look out for a female GT and put them together and play happy families, Breeding large Cichlids is very entertaining to watch and the babies are quite saleable.

You should get yourself something like an Arcadia ArcTank - 20L (tank, mini power filter, light, the lot) I got one for £25 in a local fish shop. They are a perfect Nano tank for shrimps and small fish and Bettas.

Edit : Just seen THIS 35L Arcadia ArcTank on Ebay. Might be cheaper now - that ad was ages ago.

This is correct. I am god and I am blessing my bestest pal Mr M W OBWOOKE.

As god I get 20% of all that he steals^H^H^H^H^H^H gives to you.

Also, as god. Sorry for cancer and stuff. My bad.

I think we may have to give up the smarties or even, dare I say, the voddie when we post late at night.

PS the cheques in the post

Thats my shrimps NM. What a clever lad you are.

The tanks you linked me to look great but i have six (hairy and moulting) cats and they would torment the bejeesus out of the poor creatures so i need a hooded tank LOL.

I think i have come up with a solution.

I am going to buy a smallish tank for the frogs and shrimps and it will be theirs and no one elses.

The RC will be removed for its own safety and put into the small community tank i have along with the cory and the danio. Once I'm sure that the tail of the RC is mending I'll rehouse them all in a larger tank and add a dwarf gourami and some larger tetras to add some colour to the tank.

As for the big tank with the silver shark, synodontis (Norman) and the holy, oops I mean the green terror I would like to just leave them as they are. they all get on well and tolerate each other.

As for the RC what would you suggest for helping to heal his wounded tail fin? I've put some cooking salt into the tank. OK I'm bad but its all i had available at the time. I'll see if I can get a photo later. It doesn't look as bad as it was. There are no other wounds or sores on any of the fish so i am assuming its from an encounter with the terror.

I am not a beginner at keeping fish but what I've learned I've learned by being married to a fish keeper. We kept Malawi cichlids and had a self contained two and a half foot square tank that sank into my concrete floor!! We also had a large (5') community tank with all sorts in it. I loved the malawis and would love to have a go at them again but they like to rearrange their tank too much and as the tanks are in my bedroom they'll keep me up at night. I'll stick with the south American ones for now LOL. In fact my malawis once rearranged their big tank once so much that there was a rock fall and they cracked the bottom glass. That was scary i can tell you.

I Have also kept and bred killifish. I even won at a show once LOL. Beautiful fish but I dont miss the green mops and the constant bubbling brine shrimp!!

Glad you like the picture of the GT. he really is a handsome guy.

I look forward to hearing from you about treatment for RC''s sore tail.

Ann

Hello Ann,

First off, The one product I use for wounds or for general run-of-the-mill injuries or undiagnosable afflictions is Melafix, it's basically a natural Tea Tree extract remedy.

Regarding your shrimps and frogs - I'd set up something small like an Aquastart 320 - I have one with Madagascan lace plants and various shrimps, frogs and Killifish in it. It comes with everything (heater, power undergravel, lights) and has a very secure and strong integral lid. It has to be with These Three.

Over the years I've had that many tanks I can't remember... The largest I had was a huge 3 foot cube that had over 1000 liters.

Barring 2 tanks that are not in use at the mo we have 6 now, although I'm after another one for our Mbu Puffer Hubert.

Tank 1 - Discus, Clownloaches, Corys, Electric Blue Jack Dempsey babies, Syno's, Black Ghost Knifefish, Plecs, Torpedos, Garras and Elephantnose's.

Tank 2 - Mbu Puffer, Kribs, Humpheads, Congo tetras and a CAE.

Tank 3 - Angels, Platy's, Kribs, garra, EBJD baby, Rams and Tetras.

Tank 4 - Red Cherry, Red Crystal, Black Diamond, Red Cheeked, Amano, Green & Brown River Shrimps (soon to be added : School of Cardinals).

Tank 5 - Red Cherry shrimps and Electric Blue Jack Dempsey baby.

Tank 6 - Platy fry, Dwarf frog, (was my Killifish fry tank).

I just raised about 100 or so various types of Nothro Killifish I bought as eggs off of Ebay.



I am not right in the head I think sometimes.

Oh, BTW... Cory's don't do well with Salt.

"A few fish do not tolerate aquarium salt. Corydoras catfish and many live aquatic plants do not do well with salt in their water.

In my aquariums both Corydoras and many plants will tolerate 1 Tablespoon of Aquarium Salt per each 5 gallons of aquarium water, and they do poorly with 2 Tablespoons of Aquarium Salt per 5 gallons."

"A few, notably Corydoras catfish, are said to have very low tolerance for salt, although our experience has been that they do quite well at the salt levels we use."

Though salt can be the first/only treatment available sometimes. Just thinking about it, I recently treated my Discus tank with salt for White Spot because Elephantnose's can't tolerate Normal Copper-based cures.

I treated the tank a month or so ago and have done two 50% water changes since then. But in the last 2 weeks have lost 2 adult Cory's with not a mark or infection on them. Looking back on it now - it does seem to be a strange coincidence.

well back again. Think everythings sorted but time will tell.

Sorry you lost your adult cory. they are a hardy fish so it is a bit random to lose 2 at the same time. i did know they were intolerant of salt but the amount i used was minuscule and he's as happy as larry swimming about in his newly decorated tank along with his old friend the danio and his new mate the rainbow cichlid. there's lots of hidey holes that he can hide in if needs be but at the moment there's no bullying so i think they'll all get along just fine. I have treated the tank with the tea tree medicine you recommended. It smells like the stuff my teenagers used to put on their spots LOL.

The GT now just had the silver shark and the synodontis for company. He's a bit perturbed though cos he's spent all night shuffling about at the gravel and attacking his reflection on the side of the glass. Bless him. He'll tire himself out soon hopefully.

The shrimps and frogs have moved into my old goldfish tank the baby biorb. i bought a heater for it and its the only tank that I'm concerned about. I'm not sure if the frogs can find the blood worm - or if the shrimps can for that matter. The shrimps have an artificial tree to sit in but they havent moved much. The frogs have moved lots but I'm not sure if they found their grub. I may have to rethink them being in there.

I bought a smallish tank for the goldfish and he's as happy as anything. Aren't they always LOL. I may have to return him to the biorb and maybe buy a small glass tank for the shrimps and frogs. The new goldfish tank is acrylic and they don't work with heaters do they?

My next step is to see about buying a couple of fish for the tanks. Something colourful for the RC tank. I like dwarf gourami's so maybe I'll get a couple of them. For the frogs/shrimps I may get a few neons to add some colour and for the goldfish I'll buy him a mate too. I wont buy anything for the RC tank until his tail gets better.

Do you think if I bought another silver shark that the GT would get mega pissed again? 3 fish in a big tank is a bit of a waste LOL.

Sorry for the ramble. Clouds are black and I gotta run out and get my washing LOL

Ann

Hi Ann,

I hope the Melafix sorts the RC, remember to change change out 25% of the water after treating it daily after 7 days.

The GT will if you leave him will treat the tank as his and make it difficult to add others if you leave it too long. the good news is - you must add more fish -

I don't know all the dimensions of his tank so I calculated it as 48" x 12" x 16" :

System type Tropical freshwater aquarium
Dimensions 122 x 30 x 41cm/48" x 12" x 16
Surface area 0.37 sqm/3.98 sq ft/ inches sq in
Volume 151 l./33 gal. (39.89 US gal.)
Probable volume 136 l./30 gal. (36 US gal.)
Stocking density 30"/76cm (built up gradually)

The shrimps and the frogs will be fine in the BiOrb, you could probably 'clutter it up' a bit. If the BiOrb has a built in light something like THIS is cool, though the same can be achieved with placky/silk plants to much the same effect, but do not offer the microscopic beaties that live and breed on plants (which the shrimps constantly graze). The frogs being quite short-sighted and slow rely on their sense of smell to hunt and because the BiOrbs flows/currents and shape has changed, it will take the time to realise when the food will be & when. Because the floor surface area on BiOrbs is very small in relation to the water volume, and because you are keeping 2 kinds of animals that use walking/crawling as there main living area, the larger the area they have to explore the better. You can do this by piling a lot of 'things' to walk all over or rest on, out of each others way.

You don't say how large the Goldfish tank is, But I'd tend to keep the tropical stuff in the largest tank, basically it means I can keep more fish in it.

I have a 30 gallon bendy plastic store-it box from B&Q (£10) with a small power filter and a heater stuck to the side of it. I has 14 Cardinals and an Elephantnose fish in it in quarrantine . The melting point of Acrylic is about 130c - so as long as you keep it suckered to the side and don't let the actual heater glass touch the sides or bottom it will be fine - if you can, Aim or place the filter or bubbler at or close to the heater to dissipate the heat.

Dwarf Gouramis are nice and fairly placid and being slender, deep bodied fishes, the look better and more colourful that say, danios and such that make much less of a visual impact. More 'bangs for your buck' - kinda. I would get 3 or 4 to make sure you get a male at least, because he's the one that will have all the colours and a female to display to. See This btw :One drawback to this species is that it seems particularly prone to bacterial infection and Nocardia or Fish TB-like disorders. It would be highly advisable to ensure that any fish you purchase are plump, colourful and feeding well, and completely free of sores or red marks before purchase. Treating the bacterial infections these fish tend to carry is often unsuccessful. Some shops no longer stock this species as some suppliers in the Far East seem unable to provide disease-resistant fish. If you're able to find decent stock, they should be very easy to keep once you have them established in your aquarium. [Ed's note: Recent research, published in 2006, has shown that up to 22% of Dwarf gouramies exported from Singapore carry an Dwarf gourami Iridovirus (DGIV). This harmful disease is likely to be the cause of losses.

A good idea to add some small fish to the shrimp tank, as most of the frogs/shrimps ill be on the floor or ornaments and it will look nicer with the the rest of the tank utilised. Neons, Cardinals, Emperors, Endler's, Harlequins, Galaxi's etc.

I plan to have a school of Cardinals in my shrimp tank.

As for the RC's tank - I would have some dwarf Cichlids with him (far more personality and are interesting) like : Double/triple reds peacocks, Borellii's, Agassizii's, Hongsloi's, Panda's....

As for the your big tank, if you like Silver Sharks, I'd get another 4, as they are much happier in a school and you will see the difference in your little chappie. If you don't have any live plants, Silver Dollars are nice showy fish that don't get too big and are fine in a four footer.

Just remember to re-arrange the deco in the tank when introducing any new fish, so they all have to sort out new territories and are all on equal footing together.

Have to go now, as all this typing has given me RSI.

Let me know how it goes....

Hi NM

Sorry for the RSI.. The wrist supports are on me

Things are hunky dorey in the tanks YAY. The GT is ruling the roost but the silver shark and synodontis are showing themselves loads so I'm just gonna stick at the 3 unless i see large SS's at the weekend and I'll buy a couple of them.

The RC still has a bloody lump tail but I'll continue to use the melafix until it clears. He's due the water change on Saturday. Do I count Saturday as day 1 again with the water change on day 7 until it is cleared?

I'm not adding any fish at the moment but I'll look at your suggestions when the time comes.

The RC is so happy now in his new tank I feel awful he had to wait a few days til i figured something out. He has places to hide but doesn't. The danio and cory aren't fussed by him either. It will be nice to add a bit more colour when he's well enough. In saying that his colour has started to come out. He has that orangy chocolate look about him with the bluey tinge to his fins.

Now for the shrimps and frogs. I put in some frozen blood worm last night and both frogs swam up to grab it which is a good sign. I didn't see any shrimps moving for it but that doesn't mean they haven't fed. They are very good at hiding in their tree!. Do you know if I have to use that ceramic media in the tank for the filteration to work? The blood worm is gonna fall down there where no one will get it and I don't want it polluting the tank. Will the biorb work without it?

Well. Now I have RSI. Pass the splints to me when you're finished with them LOL.

Ann

In the words of Rabbie Burns

The best-laid schemes o mice an men
Gang aft agley,


The RC has battered my danio. He's no tail left and is bleeding

He is now in the biorb and has perked up a bit.

Next suggestion LOL.

What can I put in with the RC that won't get hurt. Not even sure if I want to leave the cory in there.