As many of you will be aware, I've been in contact with Vestel on and off for almost 2 years now, in relation to the T810, T816 and T825 based PVRs, and was a tester for the T816 PVR some months before it was available to buy in the UK. Anyway, from my point of view I'm dismayed at the way development / quality control has headed and I am currently composing a letter to Vestel detailing my concerns. Granted they may choose to ignore everything I say, but I feel it's worth a shot.

So, if anybody has anything they'd like me to mention in my letter, please post your comments here. Likewise, any general comments about the progress of their PVR range or otherwise would be appreciated. I don't want the letter to be too long, so I'm not going to tell them about loads of specific bugs (I've told them about http://pvrbugs.futaura.co.uk enough times, so they have no excuse to not know about most of them anyway ). What I have covered so far is the seemingly continual downtrend of software quality control since the T810 software and the end result being that many people view the T825 to be not fit for purpose, and that improving software (along with providing OADs) is a sure-fire way to stem the churn rate which they must have with many people here having returned their units for a refund. I've also raised the issue of the tuner sensitivity in that most other brands are able to cope with incoming signals that are not as strong/good in the hope that they will look into this for future hardware revisions.

That's about the gist of it, so it's over to you now...

I have a T825 and from day 1 it has had occasional freezes and lots of little bugs (As I write this it has it has locked to a channel and won't turn over).

Having previously owned a Vestel box in the past I was willing to give it a chance - expecting it to eventually get an OAD. I thing they're brilliant boxes for the price and I would've been more than happy to hold onto it despite the bugs as long as I knew they were going to get fixed.

But looking through ds it looks like they don't provide updates as often as I expected if at all.

So sooner or later this box is going back and I won't be getting a vestel again.

It's just a real shame.

That's exactly in line with my views. I was wondering if we could somehow reinforce your message, like with a petition added onto the end, or something... I just feel they need a massive kick up the Khyber before they'll take any notice, it's incredible how the product has gone downhill instead of up


EXACTLY!

parthena

I agree entirely with your proposals. It would also be valuable if Vestel at least stated what there policy actually is regarding providing OAD updates. There were strong rumours around the end of last year that an update for the T825 was imminent but did not materialise. I believe you have indicated on this forum in the past, presumably based on information from your contacts, that Vestel were at least considering producing updates. It seems to me they are losing out on an opportunity to make what is potentially a superb great value product a reality rather than crippling it with solvable issues.

Colin

Well, I'd rather give them a chance to respond first, and if that fails then, sure, a petition might be worth a go.

I was pretty much given a date for the T825 OAD this year, and IIRC something did appear on the DTG schedule, but for whatever reason it never materialised. To this day I have no idea what went on there. And to confuse matters, I got the impression that Vestel think an OAD for the T825 has already been broadcast. Hard to know what to believe - but, obviously an OAD never happened for the T825. I'll elaborate further on the lack of OADs.

Just a quick update, although I don't have much to add... I've had a reply back from Vestel - apparently there have been some series link issues on the T825 that were due to the broadcasters. They plan to issue and OAD for the T825, although I personally make no promises. For the T816, there may be a possibility of distributing v6.7 (FP Group 2, as per the Sharp model) for those who want it - that said, I haven't gotten my hands on it yet, so not sure how well it performs.

As for tuner issues/quality/sensitivity, Vestel are surprised if the tuners are a problem - they are 3-4 dB above the DTG standards, whatever that means (not sure how that compares to other PVRs/boxes). From this I can only guess that the problem might not be the tuners themselves, but some other hardware issue introducing loss, or a software issue.

Pity we don't have a Thank You button, I wouldn't have to alert you with a 'vacant' post - but Thank You for the update, futaura

It's suddenly entered my head - I have a Volume issue which I'm not sure if I've mentioned before:

I have to have the volume set much higher when viewing via T810 and T816. It was brought to my attention yet again when I had a Tiscali+ PVR installed because the volume from that is on a par with direct IDTV - I have to be careful to remember to turn the volume way down when switching inputs from AV1 (Digihomes) to AV2 (Tiscali+), or I (and the neighbours) will get blasted. It's the same switching between the TV and the Digihomes.

Is there something weakening the volume as well as the signal

parthena

On the contrary, IMO the volume output of the T810 and T816 is spot on - pretty much exactly equal to the volume output of the tuners in the 3 TVs that I've tried them on (Sony, Philips and Panasonic) when the Digihome volume is set to max. Of course, I've had some instances where I've turned the Digihome volume down and forgotten about it, only to get blasted by other inputs, but that's my problem . Generally speaking though, I tend to stay away from the volume buttons on the Digihome remote and use the volume on my surround sound system instead.

One thing that may be worth checking is that some TVs have an option to lower/boost the volume on the AV inputs - you might find your AV1 is set differently to AV2. Try swapping scarts if all else fails (Digihomes on AV2).

I have wondered for some time if the freezing of live TV, pixellation when watching Live TV and gaps in recordings have been falsely interpreted as low signal issues due to low tuner sensitivity. I get these issues randomly and occasionally but I have an excellent signal being only 7 miles from the high power Hannington transmitter and the signal level and quality indicated by the PVR has always been very good. So it may be that the reception problems reported by users are not due to low tuner sensitivity.

Colin

The volume level of my T816 is noticeably lower than the output of the TV analogue tuner (Panasonic TX-32PM1). In or to match the level of the T816 (on AV1) and my Pace Sky box (on AV2) I have to set the Sky box preset volume level to it's minimum setting. However, it seems the Sky box is the odd one out as DVD Recorders and Players I have connected in the past have been similar to the T816.

There is a "volume correction" control on the TV but it has a limited range and it affects all A/V inputs equally. I have it set to maximum to minimize the difference between the A/V inputs and the TV analogue level but the TV level is still higher.

Colin

As usual excellent service from futaura.

However the statement from Vestel re Series Link issues, blaming it on broadcasters, is not accurate. The failures I, and others reported were not because of broadcast errors (always pays to replicate tests on another manufacturers unit(s) if possible) it was the Vestel software.

Same here. My old Philips CRT needed the volume set to at least 40 to be useful with the T810 and more like 50 to give some flexibility. The analogue tuner and other most other external boxes needed it below 20. The same issue arises with Philips and Toshiba CRTs with digital and analogue tuners and all other boxes needing much less volume.

Also I find the T810 (mine is the Dual branded one) often tends to start off at a low volume when taken out of a prolonged period of standby and then after a few minutes it needs to be turned down.

My main issues with Vestel are:

The T810 has the well known 'black line' at the bottom of the screen. This may be a hardware issue and so not something they can fix but how the heck did it ever get into production with this problem and how did so many well known brands not check it either before sticking their name on it? Software wise there may be some other more subtle bugs but the daylight savings issue is an absolute whopper and seems like it ought to be an easy enough thing to fix yet Vestel didn't fix it with an OAD.

The T816 in the form of the Hitachi HDR161 running 3.7 has the rather major problem that the 'Create Archive' functionality just plain doesn't work (no picture). Again how on earth did this not get spotted during testing and why has it not been fixed with an OAD?

[BTW can someone tell me if the VCR socket on the T816 is active during live viewing and playback from the library as it is on the T810. I got the impression it isn't but may have confused myself and I don't have the box myself. If it isn't then it is basically useless given the archiving doesn't work.]

I have to say that I would be very reluctant to buy a Vestel box again as it is clear that significant bugs get through their QA with disturbing ease and they don't seem to have any pride in their product line. Without additional OADs to fix the known bugs T810 and T816 are basically unfinished products.

You would have hoped that the major brands putting their name on the boxes would be a bit disturbed by the way things are going too. It is their reputation at stake even more than Vestel's.

Possibly the black line problem is a hardware problem at root, because I remember the Sagem PVRs using the same chipset as the T810 had the same problem. But if it is a hardware issue, it can be worked around in software. Whatever, it was fixed in the T816. I screamed loud and clear at Vestel to release a T810 update with the black line issue fixed, because people were returning units to the retailers because of it. I believe the DST issue may well have been fixed in v5.6.


It did work in the v1.9 version that came installed on my T816 box, but since I updated it to v3.0 and up the archive function stopped working as you describe - since it worked in v1.9 I unfortunately didn't test it in later versions before they became available in the shops.


IIRC, it is.


Indeed. IMO, they should have slowed themselves down and fixed all the bugs as they went along, since leaving bugs in only amplifies the instability of the software as it is updated.


Yes, my thoughts exactly. Will be interesting to see what the next Vestel hardware generation looks like in the new Argos catalogue, since there is a possibility the software will be something completely different to what we have now. Asda seem to be off-loading the T816 and T825, and have a new model in stock that is possibly not a Vestel. If Vestel could just fix up the software and perfect it, it'd be a no brainer not to buy one, but as it is, it's a bit of risk.

Now and then I've been looking into speakers/hifi/home cinema for my setup because the Daewoo TV's sound is not as instantly flexible as I'd like it to be (sometimes it needs sharpening up for speech but even if I got the settings right it would not be a one-button operation to change it for the conditions, like it was with my old Samsung )... but I can't afford anything half decent and with a remote control.


The weak sound applied when each Digihome had its own SCART connection, ie AV1 and AV2 - if I switched from watching via PVR to direct TV without lowering the volume of the TV, deafening sound resulted.

Never mind, I still love my Digihomes

parthena

Ooo, FP Grp2 for my T816? Lovely. If you can get the v6.7 software, try to get the v3.7 software as well just in case we need to switch back.

Can't wait for this one. Keep tabs on it for us will you? I know you will... ~

If you have not read it already it may be worth reading the Sharp TU-R160HA thread here before comitting yourself.

Colin

I notice on the DTG schedule that Vestel have OTA downloads listed for one of their non-pvr boxes. So if they can provide them for non-pvrs, why are pvr owners getting no love?

Any updates on the situation?

Unfortunately not. I'm not at all happy with Vestel Turkey's apparent current stance, and most of the time they keep fobbing me off with false promises.

Glad you posted anyway - now seems like a good time to redirect my message of concerns to Vestel UK instead - maybe they need to be pushing Turkey harder to sort the mess out.

Just FYI, I decided to go a little proactive and contact them myself - to my surprise they provided me with new firmware for the LP, CI, non-HDMI T825's.

I'll post back once my rs232 cable arrives and i've flashed it. Will also ask Vestel if they mind me sharing it.

I do have a fair amount of experience in beta testing of various software/hardware (which I mentioned to them), maybe that's why they provided it - or maybe they are just really close to an OTA release and didn't mind it getting out :P

I'm sure they would have made you sign a secrecy clause if you weren't allowed to share it I am now riveted to your posts

parthena

Ok, just flashed my LP250DTR (LP, CI, non-HDMI) with the new FW. Details

Build: v.10.9
Build date: 27-06-2008 @ 10:18:54

First thing to note - i've not lost any of my timers but I did have to rescan my channels and re-set a few other bits.

Second thing to note - series recording appears to be fixed (kinda)! I did the Hollyoaks test, and sure enough, it's recording the E4 episodes but on the rest of the stuff in my list, it's not recording the repeats

Speed seems good, even with a large-ish timer list - whether it says like that, time will tell.

Any questions, just ask and I'll report back

Thanks for the information. The original build date for the 4.8 software on the supplied LP HDMI models was in Jan 2008 and I think the non-HDMI 4.9 version was shortly after that (can you confirm that) so it seems they have taken about 6 months to produce the 10.9 update you have. I wonder what Vestel intend to do with it. Argos are not currently planning to stock any new LP Models according to their latest catalogue so maybe we will see the 10.9 version appear on a differently branded model elsewhere or maybe Vestel have seen the error of their ways and will transmit the update as a long awaited OAD? It will be interesting to see if version 10.8 or similar appears for the LP HDMI models.

It will be interesting to see if the speed of the interface continues to be OK after you have used it for a while and have a significant number of timers listed. The unit has obviously just been re-booted after installing the update. Immediately after a re-boot the speed tends to be improved but then deteriorates as timers are implemented and new ones added. On my LP250 I found that significant slowing of the interface started to become noticeable with more than about 50 events in the Timers List with the most noticeable delays being the time to access the Timers List after the button was pressed and the time delay after setting a Series Record in the Guide before the Red highlight appeared.

Colin

Just noticed this as the unit boots/shuts down:

http://nedge2k.com/images/thumb_14-A...8_IMG_0144.JPG

Now that's either advertising or the boot screen for a new unit that company will start selling. However, after looking over their site, they only seem to do accessories, so it's looking more like advertising - which, obviously, I'm not happy about! Plus the unit STILL takes forever to boot up after being switched off at the wall which means I've had to program a huge delay in my harmony remote so that it waits for the unit to stop screwing about before it tries to power it up and seeing as all my devices are powered off at the wall using RF switches at night, it's a bit of an issue!

Are you using the Low Power mode?

Colin