You seem very fond of the term p*ssing contest, which is not something most people are familiar with, especially in a serious business context but in this case what you actually learned is that Raef very well knows his own mind, but thinks better of expressing it on television.

It's crystal clear what he does think though - whether he chooses to express it or not, and Lucinda wouldn't have sought his back up unless she was on fairly solid ground in fact.

As a gentleman he would have been quite entitled to say 'I'm sorry I can't agree' and I am absolutely sure that he has enough backbone to say that, if he thought it.

Well, yes. We few who forage these forums know that Raef doubtless backs Lucinda but he doesn't have to be drawn.

Quite. There is a time and a place for everything and a TV studio that was supposed to be about Helene and Alex not Lucinda and Helene was certainly not it.

Exactly.

She demonstrated the same petty, inappropriate sniping and childish behaviour she has demonstrated from day one. She was stamping her feet and trying to rerun the boardroom incident there and then and any socially competent or realistic person would have realised it wasn't possible! Just like all her ideas weren't possible.

She could have made her point in a dignified and concise and un-embittered manner but she demonstrated yet again why she can't work in a team ( the audience) and why her judgement was flawed and why she was in the audience rather than competing.

Helene appeared as much more adult and correctly identified that giving Lucinda any sort of demanding or responsible role in a task is doomed to failure!

Lucinda is an inept, self-indulgent child in an adult's body.

As others have said I remember being really surprised at Lucinda in the boardroom when she bought up what Helene had said about Jenny - Lucinda was naming calling Jenny but using Helene as a scapegoat.

Lucinda could be a professional victim - she is never wrong and it's always someone elses fault if things go wrong, she is uncooperative unless she's in charge and must absolutely have the last word and as she proved tonight she is a bitter woman and a sore loser.

I wouldn't work for someone like Lucinda even if it meant getting 100 grand a year!!!!! (I would actually but I've just added that last bit for cheap effect!).

validating Sir Alans view of women once again

As someone who has spent as much time as anyone defending Lucind on these threads I felt extremely let down by her behaviour on tonight's 'after' programme.

ONE interuption from the floor might have been easily forgiven but she went way too far.

Raef's refusal to take sides was correct and shrewd. He had about a second to decide what to do and he realised that he could very easily have been misrepresented if he'd started to speak and then had the camera moved. Nothing to do with being a gentleman but a lot to do with being media savvy - and kudos to him for that.

You might catch up with the rest of us eventually.

She spoke the truth and didn't bow to Helene's bull$hit about all of a sudden being friends. Raef may have been more media savvy in this instance for not getting involved but in my view made him look a little weak.

I think the point is, Lucinda tells it how it happened (like Helene calling Jennifer "evil") but she does not know that it is not always appropriate to say these things at certain times. Dragging others in is never a good idea - she seems to think justice will prevail, but it does not.

I think Lucinda went about things the wrong way tonight and I was disappointed but Helene was trying to gloss over everything and Lucinda was obviously having none of it. I also thought it was a bit strange when Helene started saying 'Lucinda has toldme things she hasn't told anyone else'


:yawn:

I think it made him look strong actually...he refused to be pushed in to taking sides. That's a sign of strength not weakness.

I think the main problem was Helene saying her big mistake was not going to the training.

The way I remember it she did attend the training and that is what Lucinda wanted Raef to confirm.

More like he didn't dare take a side - also known as sitting on the fence.

He probably deemed it wise not to pour petrol on the fire by the sounds of it...

sometimes discretion is the better part of valour. He has shown he will step in when he needs to, for example with Sara, but this wasn't one of those occasions.

I think it's pretty poor form that some people are criticising Raef here, almost as though they are trying to use him to deflect attention away from the real issue.

Lucinda is delusional. There were arguments in which Helene said that only Lucinda could perform the task because she was the only one to receive the training and I don't recall Lucinda claiming that Helene had also received the training.

I disagree.

I generally feel that people who won't take sides are nothing more than cowards. Unless they are moronically stupid they must have an opinion but they don't have the courage to state it.

I don't apply this to Raef in this case because he had no time to form an answer and had no way of knowing that any answer he gave would be heard in full.

So neutral on the strength/weakness/courage/cowardice angle but plus points for realising he was on a hiding to nothing if he even tried and his better option was to keep quiet.

Why is everyone taking Helene side?

She made Lucinda feel like sh*t during that task and bullied her. What did she during that task????

NOTHING apart from as Lucinda said walked around drinking tea and eating chocolate.

I would never ever treat anyone and I mean anyone the way Helene treated Lucinda during that task. The reason Helene got so far was because she was lucky, I think.

Ah, was this on "you're fired"? I didn't see it, but I think I understand. Helene was awful to Lucinda and Lucinda is so clearly streets above Helene. I like Lucinda, but yes she does have a rather edgy streak. However, she is good with anyone who is co-operating and I think that's important.

I haven't been sure about Helene until now. Coming from a corporate background myself I would have liked her to do well because everyone was dissign her for that. However, on the main programme tonight she proved she has nothing about her and even though she was working with a complete worm she could have conducted herself a lot better and risen above it. She is too dependant. Alex is not dependable. Neither of them are worth a biscuit in my book.

Lucinda is difficult to manage, you have to let her have her own way, but if you do then she's a dream. Yiou just have to know how to handle her. Some may say this is unco-operative, but it's no more unco-operative than a wirecutter which does not turn screws very well. Lucinda is a carpenter for this analogy. She knows her tools and if she isn't sure and mistakes a screwdriver for a wirecutter she will listen to the screwdriver and allow it to screw screws rather than to cut wire, which it cannot do. I think all she asks is to be afforded the same courtesy - to be listened to - and no-one seems to have had the intelligence to have done that.

I'm not taking Helene's side....I think she treated Lucinda very badly and I'm sure most people would agree on that point. But I'm not sure this was the time or place to get in to it.

Helene attacked Lucinda because Luncinda had been assigned and trained in a simple task that according to the software bloke" a child of eight could do" and yet Lucinda proved incapable. Helene was naturally annoyed that one of her team was proving so inept.

But, as we have since discovered, eveyone "back stage" (Helene, Lucinda, Raef and Kevin?) had the training. Why didn't Helene accept this.

When and where is the place?

This was the last time they both are on TV together.

Lucinda likes to play dumb. She did it Helene. She did it will Lee during the car task.