Is that an example of wisdom from the uneducated?

You clearly don't know what project management is - I'll give you a clue, it isn't what they like to call 'project management' on The Apprentice.

And what you have described looks more like building a house to me.


Maybe education could help you out?

I can - the rot set in long before New Labour came along. I'd say it started about 1979 myself.

If you think there is no project management involved in building a house then you really should be the one seeking education.

Well that's your opinion, but of course, it's Sir Alan who has to work with Lee and give him a job, so obviously he is best placed to know who is best for the type of work he will be doing.

Perhaps he thought Lee was best suited to the job. Lee may lack a formal education, and may not be able to spell. However, he has worked constantly and has not scrounged off the the country for years. As for his not being able to spell - I'm pretty sure he has dyslexia. However, he definitely should have spellchecked his CV!

It's not the same sort of project management you get an MSc in though.

Only in a basic sense.

I am a consultant project manager to a 6000 home development with associated infrastructure. The complexity of such would be beyond your comprehension.

Your remark on project management degrees indicates as much.

But the job isn't in consultancy, is it? And Sir Alan's opinions on qualifications are well documented. He was never going to pick someone over someone else, because one person was better educated.

It is all simple though, it isn't rocket science land availabiltity, planning applications, environment agency Flood and drainage plans, ground survay, local government permission.

6000 homes or one home the principles is the same.

Did a quick google did you?

Lets not forget:

Analysis & design of objectives and events
Planning the work according to the objectives
Assessing and controlling risk (or Risk Management)
Estimating resources
Allocation of resources
Organizing the work
Acquiring human and material resources
Assigning tasks
Directing activities
Controlling project execution
Tracking and reporting progress (Management information system)
Analyzing the results based on the facts achieved
Defining the products of the project
Forecasting future trends in the project
Quality Management
Issues management
Issue solving
Defect prevention
Identifying, managing & controlling changes
Project closure (and project debrief)
Communicating to stakeholders
Increasing/ decreasing a company's workers
Project Charter
Preliminary Scope Statement / Statement of work
Business case / Feasibility Study
Scope Statement / Terms of reference
Project management plan / Project Initiation Document
Work Breakdown Structure
Change Control Plan
Risk Management Plan
Risk Breakdown Structure
Communications Plan
Governance Model
Risk Register
Issue Log
Action Item List
Resource Management Plan
Project Schedule
Status Report
Responsibility assignment matrix
Database of lessons learned
Stakeholder Analysis
Financial tools
Cause and effect charts
PERT charts
Gantt charts
Event Chain Diagrams
RACI diagram
Run charts
Project Cycle Optimisation (PCO)
List of project management software
Participatory Impact Pathways Analysis
Earned Valus analysis
Critical path analysis
Financial management and budgeting
Legal issues
Client negotiation


Yet you find it strange that there are degrees for such a profession?

Such a wide range of skills and abilities are needed for true professional project management. It isn't selling fish or shopping in markets or taking photos.

B*ll*cks! The Tory Tendency counldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery.

Back in the fifties and sixties the education system was run by the Tories along class lines. If your dad was a freemason, like the headmaster, he could get the class pet taken away from a kid and given to his know-nothing daughter to have on her desk when the Queen walked through the class. The Duke of Edinburgh talked to Know Nothing about the hamster and she knew sh*t all about it!

When the parent of the child who normally took the hamster home at weekends and holidays went to the school to query why this had happened, she was told by class teacher that her daughter (me) had not done too well in the class exams. This meant getting a B+ or A- instead of A+ - whereas Freemason's daughter had trouble clawing her way up to C+!!

Being the owner of a high IQ, but not too good at maths, I failed and was consigned to a "secondary school", where one female teacher told us she and her husband had to pay for their childrens' education and we should be grateful we were getting ours "free"!! (Note the rather loose terminology, this silly female used).

Anyone who considers bringing back "grammer schools" (despite the fact that my grandparents and father attended them, and paid fees for the honour of doing so) needs putting up against a wall and being executed by speedy bullet.

I speak as a retired person, with a good income, a fairly large detached house, and lotsa spare cash, thanx!

Which "project managers" rubber stamped the building of all these British homes on flood plains? Did their brains drip out before or during the jobby?

Oh dear, I think someone's a little bitter about failing their 11+, although being able to spell "Grammar School" might have helped their chances of getting into one!

I blame the decline in educational standards firmly on the abolition of grammar schools, with both Labour and Tory governments equally guilty in this respect.

Yes I know there are some very good comprehensives out there, but they are the exception, most are monuments to mediocrity.

Fortunately I live in one of the few areas of England that has retained the grammar school system, and both my children were able to complete their education at establishments every bit as good as top private schools, but without the fees.

No I didn't do a google I have built houses.

I never said the torries were any better? I just find it funny that new labour who constantly bark on about education, education, education, have done very little to improve it.

I think both parties are pretty incompetent, but there aren't that many good alternatives.

They would be the housebuilders who came up with it and the Local Authorities/Central Government who approve it.

Nothing to do with project managers!

1. Most breweries are owned by Tories.
2. Attending grammar schools did not require a fee to be paid.
3. Anyone who suggests a bullet for people who disagree with their point of view has a serious problem ( look up anger management on the internet)
4. Obviously very unhappy with your life.
5. Good luck for the future.
6 Grammar
Last edited by hiawatha : 12-06-2008 at 19:12

Errr.....are you not familiar with how solicitors and barristers work?

After finishing their 3-4 year long degrees they have to train under a senior solicitor or barrister for 3 years , it's necessary to qualify as a lawyer.

Regardless of how people want to spin it , those with degrees do consistenly end up in higher and better paid jobs.

Yep my friend graduated 4 years ago and she's just about to qualify - but she's going to be minted now!

The OP is just a piece of snobbery. chav, please!
But I do think that education does not impress SAS, and he prefers the "grafter".

I blame the Tories. If you do your sums correctly, it is blindingly obvious that most of these peoples' education took place within the time of the previous Tory administrations. Lee is 30, and is probably dyslexic. ALL his education is down to the Tory governments.

The Tories lied like troopers at their party conferences - telling delegates and the public that they were increasing provision for those with learning difficulties - whereas, in fact, the pathetic provision that was provided, was being halved in some areas.

So place the blame where it actually lies: with the Tory party, not the present government.

[quote]
The ex 18-30 rep - whose grammar leaves much to be desired.

And there is a prime example of a project manager in action. Professional arse covering! All project managers do is make sure you fill in a risk assesment form and adhere to health and safety.

"I know it was built wrong but they made me do it"

Came across this today, which shows the quality of the candidates in the final.
From DS:
Claire Young confessed that she finds her former rival attractive despite the fact that he is in a long-term relationship, saying: "Lee’s my type of man - rough and ready. I’d shag him, but only with his girlfriend’s permission!"

However, she said she also has a soft spot for fellow finalist Alex Wotherspoon.

Now quotes her as saying: "Alex was really good looking, but he’s only 24. I caught myself perving over him one day and I thought: 'God, this is so wrong!'
End.
What have we come to when this bunch sre the best?

Would I be right in assuming that you read this in that bastion of truth, the News of the World???

Its a NOTW article for Gods sake - it isn't true - and its not likely to be exactly what Claire responded.

JJ

No, I read it on here in the DS news section, that's why I put from DS . (clue,DS = Digital Spy)

Yes - DS quote the NOTW. Doesn't make it any less of a journalistic rewrite though.