I don't really see Helene as the bully and horror that she appears to others and I'm interesting in looking at her actions to work out where this reputation comes from. I'm starting with the photo task but if there are earlier examples, let me know. Taking it little by little, this is the very first part of the team meeting from the photo task

Helene: You know, in this task what very evident at the minute is that I want my strong sales people out there in the shopping centre.
Helene to camera: What really pisses me off in business is incompetence or people pretending that they know what they're doing when they absolutely don't.
Narrator: Tomorrow, both teams will need two groups: one, technical to process the pictures, the other to sell.
[Kevin pitches for sales]
Helene: I'm going to ask Rafe and Lucinda if they will go at the back, in the back team.
Kevin asks Rafe and Lucinda how they are with technology.
Lucinda: I can't even use a mobile phone.
Lucinda giggles.
Raef starts to respond but Lucinda interrupts him.
Lucinda: No, no, no, but I don't take photos. I've never had a digital camera. I don't know how to use the camera on my phone. I don't know how to do it. [addressing Helene] If you think that would be appropriate.

Is Helene a bitch at this point? Given that the task included the requirement to split into a sales and a technical team, what should Helene have done with Lucinda?

Why does Lucinda have a mobile (with which she's never used the camera) if she doesn't know how to use it?

I believe this section reflects badly on Lucinda, not Helene. Helene had a sensible strategy - put strong sales people out front, which by necessity meant Lucinda in the back room. She shouldn't have to sacrifice a sales person to the back room to a person with non-existent sales skills. This was also the first time I noticed Lucinda's habit of making sure that whatever she failed at, the PM took responsibility ("If you think that would be appropriate.")

It seems clear that when Lucinda was incompetent, she blamed everyone else around her (something that she and Helene had in common). Helene wasn't totally blameless in that task, but Lucinda was as inept and unhelpful as she could possibly be.

Lucinda has admitted that none of her skills were appropriate for the tasks they were given, so why she went on "The Apprentice" is a bit of a mystery. Maybe it has something to do with the profile that it's given her. Well, good luck to her - if she's that good at spin, then she deserves a lot of success in the future. It's just a pity that she had to paint Helene in such a negative light to do it - you don't have to be a bitch to succeed in business, but it sure helps

I agree with whats be said. And obviously Lucinda's decision to not want to do sales either was finally confirmed in YF this week.

Of the 3 skill sets needed, Lucinda had none of them. At least for the computer work, there was training to be given unlike the other two skills, so I'm guessing Helene rightly organised her team hopint that the training would rub off on Lucinda.

However I think Lucinda got into one of those mindsets where if they initially can't/don't want to do something then they do their utmost to contnue that way rather than listening and taking on help from the training.

A good team leader would have been able to get SOMETHING out of Lucinda in that task.

I'm also interested in this.

From the outset it appears that people have taken a vehement dislike to Helene but have been unable to provide any intelligent explanation as to where this dislike comes from beyond "she doesn't do anything" and "she was nasty to Lucinda".

The first explanation is absurd as it is purely down to the editing process.

The second seems to suggest something of an over reaction to a short incident in a high pressure situation.

Of course this is all amplified by the tendency of some people on these forums to turn what, in a well balanced individual, would merely be a mild dislike, and turn it into a major grudge (or, of course, the opposite effect which often then exacerbates the detesation of anyone seen as a threat to the object of their approval).

How do you know she didn't?

Do you just assume that because all the edit showed was a major flare up and no more of relevance that Lucinda just spent the rest of the task sitting around doing nothing?

Do you think that is an intelligent assesment of what actually happened?

More or less! Its backed up by what they showed of Helene in other tasks right through to the final. Check out the interaction with Alex in the final.

While I accept that our view of the process is limited to the edited version, and that "bad news is always more interesting than good news", I don't really remember Helene succeeding overwhelmingly in any task.

I think her taxi interview is a good summary of why I don't like her and yes she didn't do anything spectacular during the program. Most of the viewers, the editors, Nick and SAS agree!! Canthey all be wrong!!

The one where she pointed out that the task was lost because of the expensive bottle and she had nothing to do with that?

What do you have against people telling the truth?


And yet she managed to get to the last four!

According to the analysis of those who take the "she didn't do anything" line, the final four in each series should have been populated by jobsworths who kept their heads down whilst others took risks and burned when they didn't come off.


Editors: We have no idea what the editors thought.

Viewers: You are equating 'viewers' with 'DS forum members'.

Nick: Nick said she didn't have any impact on anyone, not that she hadn't done anything.

AS: AS said that all four of the finalists were exceptional candidates.

So, you've craftily taken the dislike for Helene amongst forum members and attempted to turn it into something much more than it was.

Nice try but no cigar.

So how many instances can you name of anyone "succeeding overwhelmingly" in a task?

As I've pointed out before, tasks are generally lost by people doing something spectacularly stupid rather than anyone doing anything spectacularly well.

If you can go through the set of tasks given, quietly getting on with the jobs assigned to you and not doing anything particularly stupid you will appear just as Helene appeared.

An interesting perspective. As Joint Project Leader she SHOULD have had something to do with it. After all - she IS a Global Pricing Leader for a large corporate thingy! (lol)

BTW I DO NOT dislike her, and I have a really hard time with people who express contempt or hatred (on this and other forums) for people that they do not know, and who they have never met - and are not likely to meet!!

She's a global pricing leader, not a global costing leader.

Seriously, given the time they had it would have been absurd had they tried to oversee each other's work.

I actually thought she's goofed up with the scent: it sounded dire!


Good. It's a weird attitude (although I wonder how much it's based in reality and how much it's just carelessness in expressing themselves).

I dont think the actual choice of scent ws really relevant to the task. They could have picked ANYTHING (Promess d'ordure du camel!) and it would have been OK. The crux of the task was the BUSINESS side. Anything with more components is going to rocket in cost.

She said the task was lost because of Alex but she forget that she actually didn't take any decisions. At no point did she criticised the bottle or said that it was expensive to make. Alex phoned her before the design was finalised and gave an accurate description of the bottle but she wasn't willing to listen.

She also criticised Jenny M and she said she "doesn't like Jennifer M". Jenny M through the course of the competition has never shown anything but respect to Helene. Jenny M refused to believe Lucinda when she said that Helene said that Jenny M is a snake. Even after the show, Jenny M was always saying nice things about Helene and she was very supportive in the you're fired show.


Viewers: No. The opinion of the Youre' fired panels, the large audience in the You're fired show, the journalists commening on the show, other forums and if you stop being in denial, you will see that this is the opinion of the majority of the viewers. Almost every random sample taken amongst newspapers, radio listeners, TV audience confirms this opinion.

Editors: Had they thought she had an impact on the show or did anything spectacular, it would have been included in the edit.

Nick: He also said that "She is just there!!"

SAS: If you saw the You're fired show you will see that he also said: "Throughout the course of the process do anything well other than survive " and in the rest of his statement he said that "He expects people to deliver something and we never saw that from Helene"!!

I didn't liked her during the course of the apprebtice. However, I think she will learn from her mistakes and improve. I think she came well in the you're fired show.

The task was lost because it completely failed to be a viable business proposition at the price point set.

That was down to the bottle being to expensive.

The way the tasks were divided that was the responsibility of Alex.


Apart for getting the scent sorted out.

A fairly important task when launching a new scent.


As they were joint leaders and she had her own tasks to perform it was reasonable that she trust her co-leader.

Had she started querying things I've no doubt that the anti-Helene brigade would spin that as a 'bad thing' just as they did when Lucinda and Alex were trying to give Lee input at the last minute in the advertising task.




The only times anyone did anything spectacular was when it was spectacularly stupid.

Does this perhaps give you a clue as to why Helene rarely featured and yet made the final four?


Which could well be taken as a compliment if everyone else was not only there but making a variety of stupid decisions and not paying attention to detail in amusing and telegenic ways.



Indeed. Survival of the fittest!

The object of the game was to get to the end. Helene got to the final four out of thousands of candidates.


Which rather contradicts his action in having all four in the final because the were all exceptional candidates.

I always find actions speak louder than words.

I understand Helene is, like me, a Leeds United supporter. Perhaps this explains something!

I selected the photo task to start because it was my impression that it was her altercation with Lucinda that started the demonization of her. 2Lo, I don't think she was unpopular from the outset. What I remember most about her any earlier than this was that she was quietly competent. In the pub task I believe she took charge in the kitchen. I recall her more or less telling Claire to STFU and just get on with it even if Claire didn't agree with the basic concept or Sara's management. It showed her in rather a good light, I thought. The real feeling against her started, I think, with the photo task, although even then it was fairly muted. It exploded when Sara, who was popular with many, was fired when Helene was the failed PM.

As for this segment, jjackson42, I too have difficulty with this: "A good team leader would have been able to get SOMETHING out of Lucinda in that task." You know what the task was, what the rules were. What exactly would you have had Lucinda do? And that brings in the wider question as to what the PM should be focused on - the task or the people she's managing. To what extent does a PM need to alter an effective strategy to accommodate unexpected weaknesses in one of its members?

I'm not really looking for the majority opinion on Helene, just trying to trace where it went so pear-shaped in terms of public perception for her. If I ever need to take comfort from the fact that I frequently don't think the same way as any alleged majority, I just think of the great British public who made a star of Jade Goody.

Always!! Especially in situations here you cant change your team.

Thats what makes a good team leader. I would have put Lucinda as runner between the photostand and the back room, myself. That way she feels she is contributing. Both teams in that task seemed to have very poor "back-office liaison"

I have found that people with more 'people' experience, whether senior managers or professionals seem to have a much higher opinion of Helene than others. (None of the children in my extended family like her.)

First and foremost what makes a good team leader is one who leads a team to deliver. Everything else is secondary to that one aim in business, isn't it?


Who would have been doing Lucinda's job? Would you have lost one of the sales people? Raef, in which case, who would have printed the mugs and mouse mats? Or would you have had the team leader sat in one place thoughout, overseeing nothing, just doing the image formatting?

You cut your coat according to your cloth!!

Actually - No!!

If you deliver your task but destroy your team you have failed.

2LO I honestly don't know what your problem is. You take half a sentence and dismiss the rest of my post and you keep implying that others who don't like Helene are children and unprofessionals. I think you liked Helene's behaviour in the show because she had no respect for others just like you!!

I think Helene has made a lot of mistakes in the show especially in dealing with her colleagues and I don't mean only Lucinda. I think she recognised that her behaviour was a bit unacceptable and she said that the pressure of the show got to her which is a perfectly acceptable reason. Although I didn't like her, she won my respect when she admitted that she was a bit of a whinger in the last task and that she didn't like her behaviour in the program. Unlike some of her fans in this forum, she accepted that she made mistakes and she moved on and I am sure that this is part of why she is successful in the real world.

This is the next installment and involves the controversial question of training.

Narrator: Both teams will be able to print photos onto almost any product. At a digital printing company, Helene and some of her team [Raef and Lucinda] check out what's possible.
[There is a section where the people at the digital printing company show them the range of products.]
DPC: The obvious thing is mugs. Very popular. Things like jigsaws, place mats
[Demonstration watched by Raef of printing on a mug]
DPC: I you've got the handle in the wrong place, you'll force it round...
Narrator: Helene has put Raef in charge of transferring pictures. Lucinda has the job of computer processing the images.
[Raef and Lucinda are being trained on one of the pieces of equipment. Helene is in the same room but is some distance away from them, sitting at a table, where she is going though all the product pictures and price list. There's a cut.]
Lucinda: I don't take photos. I've never had a digital camera. I don't know how to use it.
Helen: You're soon going to find out.
[Raef laughs]
Lucinda: [also laughing] Absolutely. I'm going to be great at it as well. You watch me learn.
Helene: You're going to be able to put on you CV: digital camera expert.
Lucinda: Absolutely
[All are laughing.]

I'm at a real loss as to how this was declared as proof that Helene took the training with Lucinda, the bone of contention on You're Fired. What we see is wholly consistent with what Helene said on the show. However, going back to the point of what Helene did wrong here, I'm thinking "Nothing."

^ The way Lucinda asked Raef in the you're fired show demonstrates that she has no doubt that Helene took the training. Also during the task itself, Lucinda asked Helene in the middle of the argument for help because she was there in the training and Helene didn't reply saying that she didn't attend.

I think Helene did attend the training but perhaps she didn't pay much attention because she was busy thinking about other things in the task like pricing ect. She thought that since other member of her team is paying attention and is responsible for it, then she didn't need to worry.

I think she had a lost opportunity there. She had one more team member than Simon and I think she didn't utilise that. Simon had 3 people in the training. Helene should have paid attention during the training or sent another one instead of her.