It seems to me the inability to move on is a two way street....perhap's it's more the case that neither side of this debate wants to let the other be the one to have the last word?

Very possibly. It just strikes me that this wasn't a terribly significant thing but it seems to have attracted more heated and longer dedicated threads then, say, Lee's spat with Sara in the programme proper.

Hmm...I wouldn't say that, there was a great deal of hostility around that issue at the time, in fact I was reading back about that yesterday, and the whole board was in uproar over it. I'd say the YF debate is somewhere down the scale of most debated issues of the series - behind Sara being attacked, behind Michael staying over Raef, behind Shazia being fired, behind Alex's behaviour throughout the series.

But the point is that the series is over so there is little else in the way of new stuff to discuss therefore the debate is staying on the front page longer than would normally be the case.

Also the discussion would have come to a natural end if people hadn't kept on starting new threads on the topic.

And conversely neither does a fanbase on DS constitute a fanbase in real life.


Thank you so much for enlightening us to what everyone in the country thinks, Mystic Meg.

OTOH, if a certain proportion here (particularly amongst her supporters) thought she behaved badly it is very likely that others thought the same.

Certainly amongst non forum members I know who watch the show the opinion of Lucy has fallen (to varying degrees).

It's partly because Lucinda is an interesting character. She often seemed to get picked on, and it wasn't clear whether that was something she brought on herself through incompetence and her social stance, or whether she treated unfairly. Her speaking out inappropriately during YF, her trying to involve others, her being factually wrong and contradicting herself, her still being bitter six months later; all of this is data which feeds into our assessment of her. I think there is also a sense of YF being less mediated than the main programme, and that we got a truer glimpse of what Lucinda was like to live and work with.

It's something I would have much rather been able to say "naughty, naughty, naughty", and move on, remembering Lucinda's many better moments.

The reason this particular subject will not die is because there is a small, hard, core of Lucinda lovers and Helene haters who refuse to accept that, sadly, Lucy lied and acted quite inappropriately in interrupting proceedings in a programme whose format did not allow unsolicited interventions from the floor and are determined to whitewash Lucinda and/or blacken Helene.

There are several of us who, no matter how much we basically like Lucinda are not prepared to allow people to twist reality in this way without comment.

Unfortunatly, the posters on here - among whom I number myself - are what is known as "statistically insignificant".

If you have some spare time, left click on the number of posts in a thread, and a window will show the posters therein and the number of posts by each.

The overall number of posters in each thread is generally about 15; some less, with a number of names - 2LO for example - appearing at the head of the numbers of posters. Muttley heads the Raef thread by a country mile.

So there are ABOUT 20-30 regular posters.

Thats 20 down, and 9.7 million to go!!!!

As I said, statistically insignificant.

For a contrast, head to the Gay Pope thread in the Soaps, or some of the others, i.e. BB, and see the number of posters there.

So not only are we statistically insignificant in the real world, we are also insignificant on DS!!!!

Since when had that been a rule. It would be pointless having a group of people fully miked if they weren't allowed to contribute spontaneously. Lucinda spoke up once - the way you're talking one would assume she heckled her way through the whole programme.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that now that the show is off air there are considerable less people posting on this forum. You'd' need to go back to some of the older threads to get a true reflection. For example the orginal thread on this topic had more like 75 seperate posters on it.

BTW, any chance you could leave me out of it please!

O if Muttleys moved onto reaf then im in with a clear run at simon jolly good

PMSL...but I'm a greedy girl, and I want them both.....

Most people can tell from watching a series whether or not unsolicited interventions from the floor are expected or tolerated.

In the case of this programme they are not; Lucinda's outburst was the only one of it's kind in the entire series.

Trying to pretend that clearly unacceptable behaviour is actually par for the course is a ridiculous way to prosecute an argument.

Why can't you just accept that on this occasion Lucinda let herself down and disappointed all but her most obsessive fans?

Well to be fair it was Raef who closed the matter down by his refusal to participate, not Lucinda. Lucinda obviously wanted to continue it.

[quote=Katenutzs;
I think Lucinda thought she had won everyone over with playing the victim and that she could more or less say what she liked without backlash ... she read it wrong

No it is seeing the positive and the negative side of a candidate. Some look through rose tinted glasses others look only for bad thing and others look at the whole picture QUOTE]

When she sits back, takes an earful and has a cry she's playing the victim, when she speaks out (of turn perhaps) when she feels something unfair or untrue is said about her, she's playing the victim. So whatever she does, she's playing the victim.
I don't envy any of the candidates' life after the show i must say. (Particularly Lee tho... )

Agree totally with your view on how we view them, although you missed one group of viewers - the helpful bunch who chip in to a forum called "favourite candidate" or suchlike with "well i wouldn't hire any of them", repeatedly for 12 weeks! A personal bugbear of mine!
Last edited by crsin : 19-06-2008 at 13:39

<remembering a previous comment about "net police" or suchlike...>

In reference to the point you keep making about no other fired candidates speaking out from the audience previously in the YF series, I think i'm correct in saying that the last show was the only one where fired candidates were in the audience. This was the first opportunity for it to happen...
(I'm not commenting on whether this justified it or anything, I just wanted to point that out. )

No offense - or criticism - intended!

A pity that you didn't understand it as well as remember the words.

The 'net police' was directed at self appointed censors who try and tell people not to post.

My 'not prepared' comment simply applies to using our right to debate to ensure that the other view is presented.


Because a couple of people keep insisting that intervening in a programme whose format does not incluse unsolicited interventions is perfectly acceptable bechaviour.


Actually, people can yell out from the floor and other mikes will pick them up.

Whatever, it doesn't alter the fact that the programme format was not one that utilised unsolicited interuptions from the floor.

I'm not sure why people think that Lucy had any right to do it.

Do they think if she was an audience member in some other programme she could, because she felf very strongly about something, just blurt out things uninvited?

Do they think they could?

That's the thing that persuades me most that the producers encouraged this to happen and that Lucinda did not do 'wrong' as you see it in the format of the programme. The candidates were miked up and the mike's were obviously on because non of Lucinda's comment was lost.

Of course how it came across is another more subjective matter.

<deleted by author>
Last edited by crsin : 19-06-2008 at 15:36

Good point. The show is EDITED - and if the producers didn't want it they would have either gone again, OR just edited it out.

1. A backlash on DS would not constitute a backlash in real life but remember this is only one of the forums on the internet and on all of the forums I have visited there has been a backlash re: Lucinda;s outburst on YF'd

2. It is good to have a forum where you can discuss/debate things. Espcially as I am off sick at the moment due to a back injury or I would be bored out of my mind, lol Sometimes it is good to have a winge

3. No it is not the great wide world but it is a precentage of the viewers in the UK as I am sure most of the world do not watch TA(british version). Most polls carried out are of a precentage of people and many polls prove correct

[quote=crsin;24717863][
When she sits back, takes an earful and has a cry she's playing the victim, when she speaks out (of turn perhaps) when she feels something unfair or untrue is said about her, she's playing the victim. So whatever she does, she's playing the victim.
I don't envy any of the candidates' life after the show i must say. (Particularly Lee tho... ) QUOTE]

It seems to me that Lucinda had developed a bit of a victim mentality. She had this façade of being touchy-feely and empathetic, but she was actually out of step with everyone else. Shouting out in the TV programme to spoil Helene's moment was not a nice thing to do. In contrast Helene handled it quite well. She focussed on Lucinda's intelligence, and then focussed on her own mistake of not being trained. She avoided being critical of Lucinda, other than saying Lucinda hadn't wanted to do sales (we saw in the car task how bad Lucinda was at selling). and couldn't operate a camera so Helene had no other choice but to allocate her the computer job which training was provided for

Helene said that although some harsh words were said when they were both frustrated, they made up afterwards. Lucinda denied they made up (even though she said the previous week this was so). So Helene said Lucinda had confided in her to support her claim that they had made up. Seems logical.

It looked to me like they did make up. They worked well together on the following ice-cream task (Lucinda was PM). Helene praised Lucinda in the boardroom. Then Lucinda repeated in the boardroom some things Helene had allegedly said about one of the others (Jenny Mc). If Helene did say those things, it was clearly in confidence (as she was annoyed when Lucinda brought it up), which reinforces the idea they were both confiding in each other. What Lucinda did to Helene there was similar to what Alex did to Lucinda in the interview round.

They may have fallen out again after the ice-cream task because of the boardroom clash, but I don't recall seeing any more arguments between them in the next two tasks (which they won) and for the final three tasks they were on different teams. So I think Helene was telling the truth about that. Remember Lucinda seemed to have problems with most of the other candidates even Lee in the end

Lucinda's "tea and chocolate" comment looked to me like playing to the gallery, echoing things other critics have said online. Lucinda of YF'd was one of those moments you see the real person, and I didn't like what I saw one bit. She couldn't be just a little bit polite, instead taking a last-ditched opportunity to get her opinion out. She's clearly not able to laugh off any misunderstanding, even eight months after the event. What a sad state on mind to be in.

I love how these Lucinda haters call her supporters obsessive when in actualy they've probably issued many more venomous posts than the supporters have issued nice ones. Pot, kettle - you know the rest.

Some of certain candidates supporters and detractors are obsessive and are prepared to skew reality to try and maintain their particular view.

I was called a 'Lucinda Obsessive' until the YF programme when she let herself down with her spiteful and untimely outburst.

I still like her and rate her very highly in certain areas but I was never so obsessive that I would ignore, or worse still come up with absurd justifications for, her bad behaviour.

Similarly I like Helene but would never try and make out that during the course of TA she exuded bonhomie or handled the Lucinda episode in the photography task with exemplary managment skills.