My first post is a rant.

From the very first episode (Rose) with it's glaring continuity errors to this patronizing crap, I'm glad that there is dissent.

Having just watched the genius of City of Death, Brain of Morbius it only served to remind me of how crap - truly crap - the new series is and has been all along.

Save Julian Bleach (brilliant) , the whole franchise has become a badly written joke thats nothing less than an insult to the Terry Nations et all who really thought things through.

No need for binal story arcs then. Just solid imagination coupled with terrifying direction.

RTD has done as much damage as that other idiot who destroyed Thunderbirds with that stupid toy driven movie.

Pot Noodle Sci Fi.

What were the continuity errors in Rose?

As for the rest, look at my Logopolis thread.

The show does have flaws for sure but the ratings its getting I cant see anyone at the BBC really caring tbh.

You know that thing with buttons on, it's a remote control. Use it I reckon.

I know when people come and do things to something you love that you don't like it hurts a little (I was gutted that KFC bastardised California Soul by Marlena Shaw as it is one of my all time favourite songs) but sometimes you just have to let things go - it's not for you anymore and that's sad but remember even though it is for all the family, in part Doctor Who is a kids show.

So when you grow up and watch a new Who, it's not really aimed directly at you, you either move with the times or stop watching. I reckon you should stop watching you sound v cross and I don't think it's worth getting an ulcer over.

But to concur on one point, Julian Bleach made Davros as scary as I remembered he was back in the "good old days" which was amazing.

I'd suggest you stop watching Who then. Its not aimed at you and you alone. Its aimed at everyone. TV audiences have changed, hell, sci-fi audiences have changed.

I had a big rant on another thread about all this. It makes me sad to hear people endlessly pouring scorn and bile on new Who. I like the new direction. Its never going to go back to what it was in the 1970s (would anyone still watch if it did?). If you don't like it, then don't watch it!

And more importantly, don't waste anymore of your time on it! Go find something you do like and use your energy more positively. There's really nothing to be gained by coming on here saying its all a load of sh*t.

Here's what i wrote:

Jesus H Christ! What do you people want from Doctor Who and its producers?! Blood?!

I believe that RTD has done a sterling job bringing Doctor Who back to the forefront of the public conciousness. Its probably bigger now tham its ever been (and yes, i do know Tom Baker's era picked up 18 million viewers in a pre-multi-channel era), and RTD has coped enormously well in managing the flow of information around the show.

Yes, he has played with the press and had to disclose various tit-bits of story. Unlike the plethora of wretched soap operas, what RTD has done is given you just enough to be interested - rather than blowing the whole plot (come on - soaps have their upcoming storylines mapped out in such detail in the press its a wonder anyone watches). Big returning monsters will always get publicity and images will get leaked by avid fans filming on location and by BBC insiders. Some things will be publicised upfront, because some things have to be because of the witless speculation that gets out of hand (all that frothing about James Nesbitt, for one...). If you have any complaining about spoilers and info being leaked, then we fans have only ourselves to blame. we're the ones that have our 'sources' and post spoilers on the web and speak to the press and destroy any mystery about upcoming episodes! Yes, on occasion offical outlets have got it wrong - but can you blame them when in all likelihood its going to end up in cyberspace well ahead of broadcast?

What I cannot understand to this day, is that there is hardcore of people who are just seemingly not happy with the state Doctor Who is in. Why are so many of you angry at the populist dramatic approach RTD has brought to Who? Its got people watching and capitvated a generation of kids who will grow up, like us, and ensure the shows suvival. Frankly, thats a bloody amazing feat considering the state the show was in in 1989 (leaving aside the TVM for the moment). RTD should be praised for that!

What do you want from Who? Dry, waffly technobabbly episodes full of screaming girl companions like we had in the eighties? Stuff like Star Trek, that good as it may be will only ever appeal to a select demographic?

The beauty of Doctor Who is that it is family entertainment - its not aimed at any specific demographic. Its aimed at everyone. Its bloody good fun and it makes you think, laugh, cry and scream with joy. In that respect, its already doing what 95% of television nowadays doesn't do!It engages, you, the viewer and takes you on an emotional journey. yes, there are plot holes and pseudo-science rationales - but so what?! Use your imagination and fill in the blanks for yourself. I found that to be one of the best selling points of Who - that I can discuss things about it, to try and make sense of it. For me. To increase my enjoyment. I'm bored of soaps and reality tv shows and endless emergency service dramas of various shades. Thank baby Jesus there is something on TV, finally, that demands something of its audience.

Russell T Davies, I thank you from the bottom of single human heart for returning this imaginative and bonkers TV show to our screens in a fashion that has made it matter to more than just a borderline obsessive sci-fi audience! Hurrah! And three cheers for you!

It makes me sad that so many of you seem to want the success of the show but without RTD and his "gay agenda" or whatever other poisonous bile you can think of that day to level at the man. Doctor Who has never, ever been or meant to be a hard science fiction show. Where has this illusion that its somehow the equivalent of the sainted Asimov come from?

Get some perspective, lighten up and enjoy the show for what it is! If you don't like it, then don't watch it! Why put yourself through something that you're not enjoying?

City of Death, Brain of Morbius

Two stories out of the huge list of terrible ones from the classic series.

And the Daleks were ruined long before RTD and his gang wrote about them.

Let's see what are truly dreadful stories:

The Chase (ruined the Daleks)
Destiny of the Daleks (ruined the Daleks)
Remembrance of the Daleks
Castrovalava
Logopolis
Invasion of Time
The Twin dilema

and the list goes on and on.

But still I enjoy the old series as I enjoy the new one

Surely RTD has only re-used other peoples ideas?

It seems all the additions to "new" Dr Who have come from other writers.

Looking back on the show from "Rose" it does seem like a venture capitalist has come in and exploited the show for quick profits (ratings in this case) and then bu***** off to pastures new.

RTD is to Dr Who what Tony Blair was to The Labour Party.

Without RTD there would be no Dr Who on tv now, simple as.

"He has been as critical of a tiny but vocal minority of Whovians as he is of the Daily Mail, calling them "mosquitoes". Even at the end of his tenure he continues to express regret that some of the obsessives "dominate the agenda".

"They are not real fandom, though, they are a core of mostly men who like to complain. Fandom is bigger and richer than that, and they are only about 1,000 people who give everyone else a bad name and build their life around a show."


RTD in the guardian 07/07/08
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...television.bbc

Clearly RTD has ruined the show. it should be scrapped now...even though it´s the most watched programme on a Saturday night and has won numerous awardssince it´s relaunch.

And you´re quite right about it being an insult to Terry Nation who really thought things through...after all nothing can top the perfectly written narrative of the "Android Invasion"

He's not wrong though is he? I am known amongst my friends and collegues as a huge fan.

I loved it as a kid, I grew out of it, I have come back to new Who and I love it. I couldn't name you hardly any old episiodes of it, doesn't mean that my views count less though, just means the show has been made more inclusive.

It's not like New Labour at all as it hasn't once infringed my civil liberties and I don't want to scream in RTD's face about why he has destroyed the wonderful country I live in by being a power hungry American obeying lapdog champagne socialist. COS IT'S A TV PROGRAMME. And a bloody good one at that.

Thanks Simon, your words reassure me that I am not the only fan who is happy about the direction it's gone. It'[s not the niche one, it's the right one. And it has been a blast!

So there!

A plot would be good.

And talking of Jesus - it would be fascinating to read RTD's take on the gospels;.

There would be two Christ's at the end and Mary Magdelene would be half messiah.

Pilate would be kept in a Roman dungeon

Already done - its called 'Second Coming' and aired early this century on ITV. It starred Christopher Eccleston and Lesley Sharp, both of whom went onto star in the revived Doctor Who.

When you say plot, do you mean like a lot of American stuff? That whole ongoing storyline business? Whilst I like that approach, its good to have a series like Who that you can dip in and out of and get a whole story (most of the time) each week. I can quite easily get put off shows with complex story arcs if I've not been watching from the beginning (Heroes instantly springs to mind).

Yes, because The Fires of Pompeii, Planet of the Ood, Silence in the Library, Midnight and Turn Left didn't have plots...

What dissent are you talking about?

Journey's End was watched by 9.4m people, putting Dr Who as the number one ratings programme for the week for the first time in it's history. It acheived an AI rating of 91, almost unheard of for a programme with such a big audience.

I loved Dr Who as a child and I love it now, but I get most pleasure seeing how much enjoyment my 2 children, (8 & 11), get out of watching it, and I have RTD to thank for that.

The old series was a mixture of excellent episodes and some not so good, just like the new series, but I enjoy them all in their own way, because they were Dr Who.

Pyramids of Mars.

My kids love it because it's challenging and scary. It's not all about CGi for them I'm PROUD of them for this.

Nothing the new series has has got anywhere near this level.... and I'd like to think that our children deserve more than this tosh.

Don't you?

There have been over 50 episodes of New Who. Are you saying that not even one of them was worthy at all even though several have received awards for their writing?

Well like all fiction it's open to adaption and interpretation...
*hehe runs*

Is Devish back....?

In the main, children's television is in a moribund state, so yes they do deserve better. Its disappointing that plans are afoot to shunt CBBC off BBC1 altogether now.

I would argue that New Who is still a quality piece of television that appeals to children. Its not overly CGI - it has to be for the space stuff, which isn't terribly in your face. Have you tried The Sarah Jane Adventures? That comes closest to mimicing the feel and look of old school Who. Its bloody good too!

I am pleased that your kids enjoy stuff like Pyramids Of Mars (I didn't like that myself, strangely...) and the more fx free stuff. Did they watch/enjoy the likes of Dalek and Blink?

I don't think that emotional stress is still thought to be the cause of [peptic] ulcers

Have you watched Human Nature? Father's Day? Dalek? The Empty Child? Blink? Midnight? Turn Left? The Impossible Planet, School Reunion, The Fires of Pompeii, Planet of the Ood, Silence in the Library, The Girl in the Fireplace... The last four series have been full of the less CGI-d episodes which challenge you and make you think, and that doesn't make the less sophisticated, more bombastic finales any worse. While the last two finales had flaws with their resolutions, all four (other than Doomsday for me) were full of great moments.

Yes because Brain Of Morbius was a completely original idea and any comparisons with an almost 200 year old story about a mad scientist making a monster was completely coincidental.

he he exactly. I think Brain of Morbius is a cracking story but like a lot of old Who its roots could clearly be seen in other stories - for example in this case "Frankenstein"

Ironically Terrence Dicks was disappointed in what his scripts turned into after they had been edited by Holmes that he asked for his name to be taken off the credits

Probably the same the Beeb are talking about: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7492760.stm

Mmmm, an AI of 91 tells me that this is just a case of the dissenters shouting louder and airing their views far more than the vast majority of viewers who obviously enjoyed it.....