I haven't seen all of the second show yet, but from what I've seen so far I don't see any problem with the doctor. Yes she needs to tread carefully, but these people are all aware that they need to lose weight and she wouldn't necessarily be doing them a favour by pretending they didn't.

Agree on some of the dancers, and that Salsa demo was pretty uninspired! I thought it was funny, when the contestants saw Matt and Nicole Jive they were horrified at the thought of having to do that, whereas they seemed pretty ok with the thought of trying to replicate the Salsa!

IMO tonight's episode was quite interesting. (I didn't bother to post any comments last week).

The dance this week was "Bollywood". I didn't know anything at all about this dance (and still probably don't), but had had an impression that this was a "second rate" form of dance.

In tonight's show, to start with, I was impressed by the technicality of the dance. There seemed to be a lot of sinuous torso movements. In most "Western" dances the upper body tends to remain veritical, doesn't it. And then there were the precise hand movements, and the precise head isolations. So there seemed a lot to it.

Then I wondered where the dance came from - is it based on some form of religious temple dancing - I got that impression from how the girls were moving their arms. I wonder if there is some very ancient tradition that all these movements represent. I don't know, but I was impressed.

Then we had the styling session - always a very interesting part of the show. It's always very hard to devise flattering costumes for well-built girls. We saw this on Dancing With The Stars - every week Marissa Jaret Winokur seemed to be wearing a less suitable costume. The costumes that Carleen and Kimberley were wearing on Diet last week were, IMO, not particularly flattering. But this week, although their midriffs were exposed, their costumes seemed very flattering.

Then they all this elaborate face make up, which everyone seemed to enjoy (even Dr Cath seemed to have joined in with the Indian make up and had a spot in the center of her forehead).

And there was also a lesson on "pole-dancing", which was slightly interesting (but nowhere as good as the Bollywood).

I still think the elimination procedure could be a lot better. A good idea would be to rank each person (1 to 8) on their dance performance, and then to rank them on their fitness (1 - 8), and add the 2 rankings together, to give an overall ranking, in exactly the same way that the judges' rankings are added to the viewers rankings in SCD. And then eliminate the person with the lowest overall ranking.

I won't say anything about the final twist in this week's program, so as not to spoil it for anyone who intends to watch one of the replays. But I thought that was unnecessarily overdramatised.

I agree with Martyboy's comments especially the final paragraph. If he had been diagnosed with an illness or something I'd understand all that drama! They did the right thing though, deciding not to eliminate, unlike Strictly. Completely agree about the elimination process - that's the part loads of people most look forward to; why truncate it so?

Anyway I'm really enjoying the show! Yes it isn't fantastic TV but it does fill the dance shaped hole in my life.

I posted this on the MM&AA thread:

I'd love the Beeb to resurrect Fame Academy but a dance version, with Matthew taking on the David/Carrie and Kevin role as lead choreorapher who responds to the judge's comments on show night and sticks up for the contestants, and Karen as a judge, maybe with Craig RH.

Anyway tonight's show was good fun, and I laughed when Matthew said someone was blagging it I really like the pros (won't mind a couple of the male ones on Strictly) and I like the bitchiness although the whole programme is so rushed there's so much we don't get to see. I thought the Bollywood theme really worked, and I enjoyed the pole dancing segment.

The programme is a great idea but needs tweaking, and of course rescuing from Living Next year I reckon they should have it thrice a week - it won't cost more money as they have all the footage etc and it'll mean more Matthew

Haven't had a chance to watch this week's episode but I'm hoping to catch up tonight.

Can I just say how much I disagree with the comment in bold. It is incredibly easy for, as you call them, "well-built girls" to wear glamorous and flattering costumes, anyone who has watched What Not To Wear or How To Look Good Naked will know, as would any "well-built" girls watching. As for Marissa, I thought she looked lovely on DWTS, particularly her VW, Foxtrot, Tango and Mambo dresses.

Each to their own though.

I agree with your comments Chauncy - most normal women are "well built" compared to models and have no problems finding flattering and glamorous clothes to fit them, but I thought Martyboy meant the stylists don't seem to know what to do with people who aren't flat chested and size 6/8 - I may have misunderstood him. I remember Letitia being given ridiculous outfits in the early weeks of series 5, and for a while it appeared the stylists there had one "look" in their heads and did not know how to dress anyone who didn't fit that.

Ah that may be the case, hadn't thought of it like that I'm hoping I misunderstood him. That stylist is bloody useless though, isn't he?!
I remember that about poor Letitia as well, they seemed to think the more fabric involved and the more sack-like the dress the better when she great legs and great boobs and didn't need to hide under the dresses! I seem to remember Arlene and Gok on ITT wanting her to show some more flesh

I'm still very uncomfortable with the stying part of the show.

It may just be the editting, but it really does look like if a contestant says the obviously awful dress is obviously awful, then she's 'failed'. She hasn't grasped that a revolting pile of yellow satin makes her look marvellous, and so isn't becoming a 'better' person. Don't like that at ll.

I'm also still hacked off with a size 14 being deemed fat.

I really should stop watching the show!

Im quite enjoying the show -I had thought that it would be total tosh. A nice wee filler to get us through to Strictly.

I can understand why people are annoyed that size 14 is being seen as 'fat' when it quite clearly isnt. However, if the program makers had decided to use people who were very overweight, then the standard of the dances would probably be low due to lack of fitness. Therefore, I believe the angle is more a kind of ' not entirely happy with my body, so fix it through diet and exercise' kind of thing.

I really like Mark -think he seems like a nice guy. Kimberley has been a bit irritating but I havent experienced trying to lose weight on a reality show while wearing bright, revealing outfits so I think Ill let her away with having a little moan!

It is an incredibly brave thing to participate in -especially if you have issues with your body -which most of them do. Good luck to them all!

Anyone know of any decent Bollywood clips?

Here's one, which is quite pacey:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f--J4g8TWz0

There are a lot of people taking part in that, but you might image how it could be choreograhed for a single couple - dancing apart separately to start with, and then coming together, as they do.

It would make a good challenge for all the pro dancers on SCD to do that as a group dance.

Heres a clip featuring Aishwarya Rai. I've heard her name before, but don't think I'd actually seen her perform:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jUBEBbhowE

That one's quite long, 6 minutes, and she's got a bit of a sweaky voice for my taste.

This is how they tried to do Bollywood on "So You Think You Can Dance":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LALdY1yIAyg

A brave attempt, but not as good as the Indian versions, IMO. That video clip also includes comments by Nigel Lythgoe about how he'd been trying to get Bollywood onto the show.

Diet on the Dancefloor ratings:

16/07/08: 147,000 (1%)
23/7/08: 121,000 (1%)
30/07/08: 99,000 (0%)

As a comparison, an established show like Britain's Next Top Model gets about 250,000-350,000 viewers.

Figures courtesy of rzt.

The ratings are in freefall so it may not get recommissioned next year. Although ratings don't seem that important to channels like Living...

Managed to watch the catch up program tonight and although still incredibly cheap, once you accept the show's low low budget, it is steadily improving every week (except the camera work - like panning to the contestant's faces during the expert dance or a wideshot during a performance so you just see the floor!)

The drama at the end was a bit predictable but am loving the bitchiness! The Bollywood costumes were gorgeous, much better than the usual lycra tat.
I was a bit disappointed in Karen when she said the Jaiden was wrong for not exposing as much flesh as the others - IMO he wasn't the worst dancer and she should understand that he may feel uncomfortable with showing his body, especially in such a bouncy, wiggly dance. Just because some people are doing it shouldn't mean everyone has to. The person who won this week was very much in need of the confidence boost so was pleased with that result.

Have also noticed with the editing that they seem to use Matthew for aesthetics and for nice-ness and the other two judges for actual comments - this could just be my biased view as a Matt fan but he doesn't seem to be shown in the same light as the two women. Again, could just be my bias

I wish we could see more of the dietary changes and other exercise the contestant's are doing - although we did see a bit more of this with Dale.

I really can't believe anyone is watching this awful awful programme I am embarrased that Matt Cutler involved with it to be honest

I haven't seen all the Gok programs, but I've seen a couple of them.

Is there a fundamental difference in the attitude to "well-built girls", if I can use that phrase, between Gok and "Diet on the DanceFloor"? In Gok, there's no attempt at all to diet or exercise, or to change the person's physical appearance (other than perhaps a hair restyling and some make-up).

Gok seems to work simply by changing the person's own mental perception of themselves. He does things like - line up a row of plus-size models and ask the person where they fit in the row, and always demonstrates that the person has a distorted and always negative perception of themselves. And then he puts a large photo of them in a public place and ask passers by what they think of the image, and it's always a revelation to the person. And then he gives some style tips (not sure what all these are), but things like wearing a light colour (the yellow dress Carleen was keen to get), and wearing a belt to pull in the waist, and a low neckline to draw attention to the cleavage. And then there's the photoshoot, and I think that's really about the act of doing something feared, and creating a sense of achievement and success.

The objectives in Diet aren't really clearly set out. There's a string medical undertone - that losing weight is good for health, characterised by the horrible phrase "medically obese", that Dr Cath like to taunt peole with. And there's also a subtext about "this will help you to look sexy and attractive".

Dr Caths's "attitude" is quite interesting, and possibly very telling. She has this schoolmarmish, nanny-state, "I know everything and I'm going to tell you how you're going to live your life" attitude.

Is the object of the program to make people attractive and sexy, and to feel good about themselves.

Consider this: if you were to ask 100 men who they found most attractive and sexy, or who they would prefer to have a date with - out of Carleen, Kimberley, and Dr Cath. How many would say they fancied Dr Cath, out of the three?

IMO, Dr Cath is the least physically attractive person on the show. Plus, she's got this bossy know-it-all attitude, which would drive most people up the wall. And she also seems to be the sort of person who worries and frets about everything, and is, medically, probably destined for an early grave.

Really, shouldn't Carleen be giving life-coaching to Dr Cath?

There shouldn't be any other exercise. The calories burned doing the dancing are sufficient to cause people to lose weight.

I think we saw that quite dramatically on SCD with John Barnes, and I think other celebs, especially on DWTS, have described that happening.

Karen, in her preview on Breakfast, stressed that dance is more interesting and fun, than doing exercises in a gym, which is boring. Karen described on that program how her own mother had lost 2 dress sizes, just through social dancing.

And this program is showing that the participants are all losing a couple of pounds, each week.

The idea that going to learn dancing is a fun way to lose weight and look glamourous, is still true.

I don't think the absolute numbers of viewers are necessarily relevant.

I'd guess that the real criteira for whether a program is viable is whether the sponsors are getting value from the program.

If a huge number of people who are not in the market for their products (like myself) were to watch the program that would increase the viewing figures, but their numbers wouldn't matter a jot to the sponsors. What the sponsors want is to catch those people who might actually need the products (people who are overweight), and who will be likely to buy them.

Diet is primarily being sponsored by FibreSure (a health product). In the first ad break this week, there were ads for Special K (slimming product); then there was a L'Oreal (anti-ageing product); then Muller (yogurt stuff).

This kind of progam is an excellent place to reach a niche audience, for those advertisers want to sell slimming products.

It would be interesting to know if the viewers who are sticking with the program are those who actually identify with those taking part (and who need the products) the most.

Rather interestingly, there was also an ad for Sainsubury's "Hamburgers for a fiver". I suppose that might also be trying to reach a specific audience, having a strong appeal to overweight viewers, though not probably not in the sense the program might have been originally intended.

The ads are completely wasted on me as I hardly ever take any notice of them, and I honestly could not have told you who sponsors the program.

Like a lot of people, I'm not too much over weight, but would like to lose about half a stone - but nothing would persuade me to take any form of slimming products, as I think they are - at best - a waste of money.

However, I quite enjoy the program; as a competitive dancer myself (which tends to get a bit overly serious at times), I enjoy watching other people have fun with dancing, and if it helps them to get fit, then so much the better - for them.

While the absolute number of viewers isn't always the most relevant consideration, the percentage of the so-called key demographic (16-34 year olds) and the percentage of the total viewership in that time slot has to be relatively high to override any low viewing figures.

The cost of a programme's ad space is directly proportional to its reach, so I don't think DOTDF will be decommisioned because of the ratings; the ad space will just cost less as satellite TV channels are much less bothered by ratings.


That's why the Barb figures include a demographic breakdown, but even if the breakdown included people's sizes an "overweight" person watching a programme about eating healthily and dancing isn't going to be rushing off to buy Fibresure, which has nothing to do with gaining or losing weight.


Indeed, but the advertisers will be keeping an eye on the ratings to see if it's worth paying the money they're being charged, as happens with all commercial channels.


I think the programme's target audience is people who like dancing and Strictly, hence the inclusion of Matthew and Karen. The reason the ratings are low have more to do with the channel it is on, and the channel it is on is responsible for the rather low budget feel to it, which will inevitably be off-putting to some viewers used to the slickness of shows like Strictly.

If this was a BBC production on BBC 2 I'm sure the viewing figures would be 10 times higher, and it'll definitely be a much better programme.

I didn't mangage to watch the repeat on Living+1, which I normally like to see, and was doing something else while the main program was on, so I might have missed some things, and got some things wrong. But, even so, here are a few impressions of last night's show. And they are only impressions....

Firstly, this was tango week. It really didn't feel like it. I think the feeling of staccato was missing from a lot of the dances, and also the Spanish feel was missing.

More important, I think the central message of the program - that vigourous dancing burns up calories - was lost.

Tango isn't the best dance to learn, if people want to burn calories. Much more effective to so something Latin, and fast.

The scene doing press-ups in the gym was unnecessary, and completely off-message. This program ought to be saying that that is NOT what people need to do, if they want to lose weight.

A lot of the talk about fitness from Dr Cath is mumbo jumbo. Dr Cath says things like "you're now on level 6". What are these levels? What is she talking about? Fitness is something that ought to be measureable in some simple terms that I can understand. Like - how many pounds (or kilos - Dr Cath seems to keep switching between the two to confuse us) each person has lost each week; or how many inches they have lost from their waistlines; or how long it takes to do some task.

I'd like to see some tables and graphs too. A table showing the names of each contestant, and how many pounds (or kilos) each person has lost, and so we can clearly see who is at the top, and who at the bottom. Or whatever other improvement measurement you want to use.

Theee was a good scene where the girls were having their waists measured for the costumes. That scene had the potential for demonstrating real improvement. I'd like to have seen a comparion with them having their waists measured in week 1.

Or you could have some graphs showing how people's weights have gone down, week by week, or how their waist measurements have decreased.

There was a brief scene of Laura having a Burlesque lesson. That was too brief. It seemed to say "Laura lacked self-confidence. She had a Burlesque lesson. Then her confidence had improved". It could have been done in more detail (or perhaps I missed that bit).

The overnight scene in the hotel, with every lounging around in dressing gowns, playing a game, looked as though something from Big Brother was about to come up. I suppose there could be scope for extending the program in that direction, if anyone wanted to.

The costume styling, and the make-up, were both very disappointing this week. I think Kimberley might have made a great "seniorita" - but, after her Spanish make-over, she just looked like an ordinary person in an ordinary evening dress.

The performances of of the dances were mainly weak. But I did like Carleen's performance - that was very good. I think her partner (Julien) has been watching Mark Ballas, with some mild fish mouthing - but it did add to the performance.

The face shots of Karen and Matthew during the dances are hilarious - they look so serious and intent. Matthew looks as though he's struggling with some immense intellectual problem (well, maybe it is, for him).

It was OK.

That's a bit unnecessary, isn't it? I'm actually enjoying this programme apart from the dreadful Kimberley who needs to change her attitude dramatically if she wants to get anywhere. The only downside for me is that I'm not over-impressed with some of the professional dancers and I thought the Tango demonstration was very poor. Where are Vincent and Flavia when you need them?

agree 100% FT.

Martyboy - I enjoy reading your posts and agree with you usually, but, like Force Ten, I think your last comment isn't really necessary and rather spoiled what was otherwise a really good and well thought out post.

Like you FT, I am distinctly unimpressed with some of the pro dancers (being SUCH an expert and all - am a beginner lol!)

I too, like you Martyboy, would have loved to see the contestant's stats at the start from Dr C, so that we could see how they have improved over time.

Just dropping in a few of the contestants' measurements occasionally is neither here nor there - you want to see some evidence of consistency of improvement - or not, as the case may be! Graphs would be an excellent way to show this - since the fitness part of the show is a very big part.

Kimberley needs to get over herself I feel - attitude is .....interesting!

I DO like Carlene though - but wish they'd show more of how the contestants try to get fitter, comparing them with each other more, than showing more of the back-stage bitchiness, as it were.

Am enjoying it though - in spite of all it's all-too evident failings - just needed a lot more cohesive thought in putting it together, to make it work, I feel.

Agree on that! I'm not sure why they need to show the judges' faces part way through the dances, we're going to get their reactions at the end! But I like the fact that they are both concentrating, rather than idly thinking up silly puns on the contestants' names, or the music they're dancing to, or their nationality

The Tango demonstration was rubbish... I thought it was really funny that in the first week when the contestants saw the Cutlers jiving, there was real fear in their eyes at the thought of having to do that. They don't seem particularly worried by some of the demonstrations that have followed! I would guess since the programme is so low budget, they can't afford to get top professionals in to do demonstrations.

The girls are starting to look really good now, although I do feel as though they were purposely given very unflattering costumes for the first week or two just to make it look more dramatic than it really is! And Carlene's dress must have been an exceptionally generous size 12

I thought the backstage bit, where they told Laura what Jaiden had said about her hair, was irresponsible. What a great thing to do to someone with low self-esteem . Also didn't really like his reaction, not a hint of embarassment!

I'm almost glad Amy isn't doing very well, because she really doesn't look to me as though she needs to lose weight anyway!

Martyboy, that really was a nasty comment to make and totally unnecessary and untrue. If it was a joke it wasnt funny. I hope you will have the decency to apologise for that offensive remark.

Oooops....

Sorry Matthew, and ladies.

Thanks Marty Boy, thats good of you. I hope you will continue to post on DOTD as I really enjoyed reading what you had to say.

I've only seen the first two weeks but I have to admit I'm not surprised from what I've seen of Jaden. I think he should have gone in week two instead of Ed as it seems he just can't be arsed whereas Ed really gave it his all in spite of being in a lot of pain.