[David (2)]

when you use only the composite feed from a scart connection and only a composite video phono feed - whats the difference......you can have High Definition via phono, so if the wires are the same as for scart, why cant scart handle High Def?

or does scart go through some sort of chip set like a controller board, which is the limiting factor.

Dave

[dennisspooner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David (2)

when you use only the composite feed from a scart connection and only a composite video phono feed - whats the difference......you can have High Definition via phono, so if the wires are the same as for scart, why cant scart handle High Def?

or does scart go through some sort of chip set like a controller board, which is the limiting factor.

Dave

High Def is not available via standard phono leads

I'm not technical enough to explain why - but probably the same reason you wont get 5.1 sound via phonos either

[RobAnt]

The actual connector used itself isn't relevant. HI-Def is available using PyPbPr - which typically uses three phono connectors.

Standard RGB is available via SCART. RGB isn't Hi-Def (as far as I know), but you can easily get converting cables from SCART to 3 phonos.

SCART cannot handle PyPbPr, though - because it pre-dates the specification by many years.

Note that RGB is also known as component video.

SCART can handle Component, Composite and S-Video -

Composite video (worst picture quality) is also available as a single yellow phono plug.

Component, as I said, 3 phonos - but they usually have tags, rather than different coloured plugs.

S-Video is somewhere between component and composite (but is almost as good as component) - it is typically available via a small DIN plug (5 poles in a horseshoe arrangment on a small circular plug).

SCART also carries audio left/right analogue sound only. Making it a convenient connection for all these video standards.

If you use the phono/DIN plugs for video you will also need either a stereo phono lead or, where fitted, a 3.5mm headphone jack to 3.5mm headphone jack. Or some similar arrangement.

When you use SCART you should select on the source equipment what standard you intend using on your TV/Video Recorder. RGB is the best, and many don't support s-video via SCART - also composite is usual to as a sort of backup option.

Video camcorders are usually supplied with a 3 pole single mini-headphone jack for the camera, but composite/left/right phono on the other end (although many digital camcorders are are also supplied with a USB or Firewire (ieee1394) connection for best quality transfer to a computer).

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobAnt

The actual connector used itself isn't relevant. HI-Def is available using PyPbPr - which typically uses three phono connectors.

Standard RGB is available via SCART. RGB isn't Hi-Def (as far as I know), but you can easily get converting cables from SCART to 3 phonos.

RGB can be HiDef, and your monitor most probably uses HiDef RGB - but the SCART standard was never upgraded to add it.

Quote:

SCART cannot handle PyPbPr, though - because it pre-dates the specification by many years.

I don't know when PyPbPr started?, but that's not why SCART doesn't support it - RGB is superior, so why add an inferior standard? (plus there's no spare pins).

Quote:

Note that RGB is also known as component video.

NO IT'S NOT!!.

This is an often repeated mistake - Component is PyPbPr (Luminance, B-Y and R-Y) - completely different to RGB, and in fact is the signals generated in a PAL or NTSC decoder, immediately before it's converted to RGB to drive the display.

Quote:

SCART can handle Component, Composite and S-Video -

No, SCART accepts RGB, and NOT Component - Component uses three phono sockets, rather confusingly coloured Red, Blue and Green.

Only a few SCART sockets accept S-Video, it was a bodged on later addition to the SCART standard, and replaces one of the RGB pins

Quote:

Composite video (worst picture quality) is also available as a single yellow phono plug.

Component, as I said, 3 phonos - but they usually have tags, rather than different coloured plugs.

S-Video is somewhere between component and composite (but is almost as good as component) - it is typically available via a small DIN plug (5 poles in a horseshoe arrangment on a small circular plug).

Again, incorrect, S-Video is no where near as good as Component (or RGB), it provides a reasonable quality Luminance picture, with low-resolution colour 'smeared over the top' - it avoids many of the problems of PAL and NTSC, but is far short of RGB or Component.

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Quote:

Note that RGB is also known as component video.

NO IT'S NOT!!.

This is an often repeated mistake - Component is PyPbPr (Luminance, B-Y and R-Y) - completely different to RGB, and in fact is the signals generated in a PAL or NTSC decoder, immediately before it's converted to RGB to drive the display.

You're wrong about this (the big shout not the latter bit) RGB is a form of component video. Basically component video refers to a video signal which has been split into more than one component.

Of course RGB is different to the PyPbPr form of component but that doesn't make it not component. It is reasonable to talk about the differences between RGB and component because people will know what you mean but that doesn't make it right to shout at people (RobAnt) telling them they are wrong when they aren't.

[Fred Smith]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

No, SCART accepts RGB, and NOT Component - Component uses three phono sockets, rather confusingly coloured Red, Blue and Green.

Only a few SCART sockets accept S-Video, it was a bodged on later addition to the SCART standard, and replaces one of the RGB pins

Wrong, Scart can accept Component. My Kiss DVD player can output RGB, Component, S-Video or Composite over Scart basically to quote you "it was a bodged on later addition to the SCART standard"

[LCDMAN]

Sorry Nigel, but I'm with bobcar on this one. RGB is a valid form of component video signal, as are the various forms of colour difference signals YUV (Y, Pb, Pr and Y Cb, Cr).

The one thing you are all forgetting in the differences between RGB and YUV signals is the colour space itself! It's not just how you make the 3 elements, but what they represent. You can see this easily if you throw a YUV signal (say from a DVD player) at a component input configured to accept RGB. You get a picture OK but with all the wrong colours and huge green bias I seem to remember and a magenta bias the other round {or vice-versa})

[LCDMAN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Smith

Wrong, Scart can accept Component. My Kiss DVD player can output RGB, Component, S-Video or Composite over Scart basically to quote you "it was a bodged on later addition to the SCART standard"

I think the confusion here lies in the fact that SCART did have extra signals "bodged on" as new signals appeared. Whilst it might carry these signals, it is not always in both directions (inputs and outputs) . Yes, your DVD player might GIVE component via SCART, but it won't accept it! The RGB and YUV signals use the same pins - originally spec'd as RGB but with YUV instead if YUV type output is selected. Many signals share pins like this and cannot exist simultaneously, which are active is controlled by a coupled of "status" lines.


Damned French!!

[Nigel Goodwin]

You're just confusing the issue - TV's and DVD player's have sockets on them labelled 'Component', these are almost universally Y, Pb, Pr - I've never seen one that would accept RGB, and in any case where would the sync input go?.

America have occasionally produced monitors that accept RGB with sync on Green, but this is essentially a perculiar American system, and not compatible with RGB SCART (which uses a separate sync).

I've never seen a SCART socket which accepts Y, Pb, Pr either, it would be a pretty pointless thing to do?, if you've got SCART use RGB.

To try and clarify things - the three coloured sockets labelled Component on a number of products are almost completely certain NOT to be RGB, you can't connect a SCART socket to them, in either direction. There 'may' be a tiny fraction of 1% of such sockets where they may be configurable, but I've never seen one - and the chances of seeing one are extremely remote.

My emphasis on my original post was simply bcause it's encouraging people to spend money on things that can't possibly work - and I consider that a very bad thing to have sat in a forum for many years.

[LCDMAN]

Hi Nigel,

Just to confuse the issue, you CAN get a DVD player which will allow you to get YUV out over SCART. I have one here in our workshop and its a £20 Technika piece of crap from Tescos (used as our "lowest common denominator"). It only has a SCART o/p and you can select the "component" output to be RGB or YUV - it uses the RGB pins as YUV respectively.

I agree that the SCART spec didn't ever allow for this and it is a complete fiddle/fix/frig, but it does exist!

I hate SCART - until we started making consumer products we never exposed our engineers to it. Give me some good ole' BNCs any day of the week.

I dug out an old Powerpoint presentation I did donkey's years ago for some trainee FAE's;

Component Video is also called YPbPr, or YCbCr and transmits the picture information as luminance and phase-opposite chrominance pair over three coax cables. RGB [Red, Green, Blue] is some times also called Component Video, it allows for full bandwidth for each discrete colour component.

YPbPr is 'sometimes' used when discussing the three-wire analog video component interface EIA-770 [EIA-770.2-a SMPTE-240M and others]. The luminance (Y) is represented separately from the color difference components (Pb and Pr).
The Y output is often provided as a Green RCA/Phono jack, the Pb is provided as a Blue jack, and the Pr is provided as a Red jack. This can be confusing in consumer equipment as it is not RGB. The 'Y' signal carries the luminance information and the 'Pb' and 'Pr' signals carry the color difference signals.

YCbCr is used when discussing a digital component interface ITU-601 or ITU-656 digital interfaces (formerly CCIR-601, CCIR-656). Y is Luminance, Cb is Blue Chrominance, and Cr is Red Chrominance. CCIR-601 defines an 8-bit DIGITAL 2's compliment coding for component video.

RGB is the component format in which the primary colors (red, green, and blue) are transmitted as three full bandwith independent components. Only using RGB inputs requires separate horizontal and vertical sync signals. Sync signals maybe combined and tranmitted as an inverted element of the Green signal (sync-on-green).
RGB presents a better [TV] signal than the other forms of Component video, S-Video, Composite Video, or RS-170 {in descending order of quality}. RGB sends each signal on a separate cable and does not mix the color signals.

Takes me back........ /wipes nostalgic tear from eye.

[David (2)]

my new tv has jack sockets coloured Green Blue Red (plus 2 more for audio input).

It also has the more familiar single Yellow + 2 audio inputs on the side panel.

I was just wondering in the event I want to connect a PS3 or 360 - I know the 360 doesnt ship with an HDMI cord, and wanted to make sure I would still get High Def pictures from it.

Dave

[supanova619]

You can plug your 360 into the red, green and blue phono inputs and it has the other red and white phonos for sound input. You will get HD picture through these cables.

[techsmedders]

Quote:

Originally Posted by supanova619

You can plug your 360 into the red, green and blue phono inputs and it has the other red and white phonos for sound input. You will get HD picture through these cables.

Not having a 360, how does the quality of this compare to the HDMI option (if available)?

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by techsmedders

Not having a 360, how does the quality of this compare to the HDMI option (if available)?

Nothing to choose between them, slight differences between sets may make one slightly better than the other - but I suspect it's more personal opinion than anything else.