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Canon S5IS or low end DSLR?
ihatemarmite
08-08-2008
I use a 2005 vintage Canon S2IS as at the time I bought it I couldn't afford an SLR and it seemed a decent compromise. Has goodish video with stereo sound which I do use. However the image quality is frustrating, especially indoor shots with flash.

I can't decide whether to replace it with the S5IS (I want a camera asap, not to wait for a new model) which at least has a hotshoe or buy a low end DSLR like Canon EOS 350D. I considered the Sony A200 but read negative reviews.

I do a lot of indoor (usually flash) photography, including of pets, so would like a camera with high ISO where can possibly shoot in average or lowish light without flash. Or where the flash doesn't cause shiny eye syndrome on pets' eyes.

The reviews are not bad on the S5IS but most say that you have to buy a new lens for the cheaper DSLRs as the supplied kit lens is poor. That would send the price into the £500 range.

Any help deciding would be useful. many thanks.
sancheeez
08-08-2008
High ISO photography is where dSLR's have a definite edge over prosumer cameras like your S2IS (I use an S3IS myself).

For the amount an S5IS would cost you, I don't think it would be *enough* of a jump up from the S2. Better camera yes, worth several hundred £'s better? Debateable ....

If you want better performance in those sort of conditions, a dSLR is probably a better bet. Exactly which ..... I don't know!
clh84
08-08-2008
Personally I would go for the DSLR anyday. I've used a DSLR for quite a while now, having used a few bridge/compact cameras in the past. There is no comparison in terms of picture quality. ISO performance is miles ahead, due to the sensor size in an SLR being larger.

You could use an external flash indoors and bounce it, that would result in more natural looking light.

As for kit lenses? I'd say you're going to notice a big step up in picture quality even using the supplied kit lens. Olympus and Nikon both have very sharp optics in their kit lenses.

I would say buy second hand, use a reputable dealer like Ffordes, London Camera Exchange, Mifsuds, etc. You can easily pick up a body and lens for ~£200 these days.
ihatemarmite
08-08-2008
thanks that's something to work with. Only problem with bouncing a flash is my flat has high "cathedral" ceilings but at least they are white.
Since I posted I read that the S5 has the same lens as the S2 so there seems little point.
I do like Canons though I don't find them the best in low light. Any views on the Sony A200 which isn't too off the scale expensive? I guess they use Minolta lenses.
PR.
09-08-2008
I had the S5 IS which I bought about a year ago, very nice camera but I wanted a bit more control and easier to change some of the settings.

I've just purchased a Canon EOS 450D DSLR which I've not had much chance to play with properly but even some of the early photos I've snapped I'm very happy with.
ihatemarmite
09-08-2008
on the EOS 450D are you happy with the supplied kit lens? I would have to find that model cheaper than have seen it advertised at present. Just paid £300 for specs
BeethovensPiano
09-08-2008
In case you are interested, Amazon are selling the excellent Nikon D40 for £247, there is also a £40 cashback from Nikon which would ultimately take the price down to £207.

The D40 kit lens is perfectly fine too. It is also outstanding at high ISO. ISO 1600 is probably superior to ISO 200 on most compact point and shoot cameras.

Some D40 reviews with many sample pictures.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40/
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/nikon/d40-review/

Nikon Cash Back offer:

http://www.nikon.co.uk/sites/cashbac...hback_d40.html
PR.
10-08-2008
Originally Posted by ihatemarmite:
“on the EOS 450D are you happy with the supplied kit lens? I would have to find that model cheaper than have seen it advertised at present. Just paid £300 for specs ”

Sorry, I've not really had enough experience with it to say. Everything I've read so far says the kit lens isn't very good, however what I have taken seems to be ok, or isn't much good because I've screwed up the settings in my experimenting!

I am on the lookout for a telephoto lens though as the kit lens has a much lower zoom than the S5 IS. That and a carry case...
ihatemarmite
11-08-2008
Originally Posted by BeethovensPiano:
“In case you are interested, Amazon are selling the excellent Nikon D40 for £247, there is also a £40 cashback from Nikon which would ultimately take the price down to £207.

The D40 kit lens is perfectly fine too. It is also outstanding at high ISO. ISO 1600 is probably superior to ISO 200 on most compact point and shoot cameras.

”

I got pretty excited there until I saw that it's £400+ for any compatible lens with built in AF. I wouldn't be happy stuck with 50mm as one review seems to indicate Nikon thought buyers of the D40 would be.

Which of the major basic DSLRs has the best quality but most affordable lenses (eg 18 - 200mm)?
BeethovensPiano
11-08-2008
Originally Posted by ihatemarmite:
“I got pretty excited there until I saw that it's £400+ for any compatible lens with built in AF. I wouldn't be happy stuck with 50mm as one review seems to indicate Nikon thought buyers of the D40 would be.

Which of the major basic DSLRs has the best quality but most affordable lenses (eg 18 - 200mm)?”

Err.. what are you talking about £400 for any AFS lens?

example

AFS 18-135mm : £164
AFS 55-200 VR : £122
ihatemarmite
11-08-2008
I was looking at Amazon's prices. If you are too, my apologies! would you mind posting the link please? cheers.
BeethovensPiano
11-08-2008
http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/cat11.html

Sigma and Tamron also make lenses for the D40/D40x/D60
ihatemarmite
11-08-2008
thanks. called a couple of photo retailers incl Jessops. They say to buy the non generic lenses as otherwise I'll not notice a major improvement in image quality from the S5IS. You get what you pay for. The Nikon £400 lens @ amazon's the ticket. The others are cheaper = inferior results. Had a Sigma lens in the past and it wasn't great. Back to the financial drawing board. I won't buy an SLR if the results aren't a major improvement on the S2 or S5.
BeethovensPiano
11-08-2008
Originally Posted by ihatemarmite:
“thanks. called a couple of photo retailers incl Jessops. They say to buy the non generic lenses as otherwise I'll not notice a major improvement in image quality from the S5IS. You get what you pay for. The Nikon £400 lens @ amazon's the ticket. The others are cheaper = inferior results. Had a Sigma lens in the past and it wasn't great. Back to the financial drawing board. I won't buy an SLR if the results aren't a major improvement on the S2 or S5.”

One lens in the past doesn't mean you'll have problems today, and all lenses are different anyway. What do you mean "non generic " lenses? You mean the kit lens? The D40 kit lens is fine.

Forget about advice from Jessops. Go here http://www.dpreview.com/ and visit the forums.
BeethovensPiano
11-08-2008
An example

ISO 1600 on the Canon S5
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/ca...w/IMG_0087.JPG

ISO 1600 on the D40
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/ni...w/DSC_0100.JPG

ISO 3200 on the D40
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/ni...w/DSC_0101.JPG
ihatemarmite
12-08-2008
many thanks. will have a read.
PS why does it say Forbidden on this server etc when I click on the above links?!
BeethovensPiano
12-08-2008
Originally Posted by ihatemarmite:
“many thanks. will have a read.
PS why does it say Forbidden on this server etc when I click on the above links?!”

They must have disabled external linking to sample pictures.


Scroll down about three quarters of the review and you will find the high ISO samples.

Canon S5
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/ca...hot_s5-review/

Nikon D40
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/nikon/d40-review/
Smufter
17-08-2008
I don't know if you have got sorted yet, but I have recently purchased a Sony A200 which is available for around £260.00 (if you shop around) and comes supplied with an 18-70mm kit lens which covers a slightly better focal range than most other manufacturers standard glass.
Results achieved with it so far knock anything I ever got from my bridge cameras into a cocked hat.
One of the benefits of the Sony (Alpha) range of cameras is that they have image stabilization built into the camera (not the lens) so any of the older Minolta AF lenses will fit (and work) and can be picked up really cheaply on e-bay or the like.
I picked up a Minolta 50mm f1.7 lens for just on £50.00 and it's terrific....razor sharp and ideal for everyday use.
The supplied kit lens has received "so so" reviews, and my initial thoughts on it were that it was a little "soft"...but experimenting with varous apertures and shutter speeds prove otherwise. It is a very capable lens.
Sony branded lenses can be a little more expensive (as can any other manufactuerers) but both Sigma and Tamron market very decent alternatives. You have to do your homework though and avoid the "duff" ones.....

I have just purchased a Sigma 17-70mm for mine, (which receives rave reviews everywhere) and this, along with a Tamron 55-200mm (another well respected lens) covers most of my bases.

But whatever you choose, enjoy. My main advice though is don't rush into buying lenses. 'cos that's where your money will be gobbled up!
Rob
Martin Blank
18-08-2008
Some good advice from the man above.

I'm surprised nobody's talked about Olympus. I've recently purchased the e-420 with 2 kit lenses, which are widely regarded as some of the best kit lenses available for any dslr.

Don't rush into buying lenses, get the most that you can from the kit. Look into Olympus, much less than the £500 you were talking.
ihatemarmite
20-08-2008
thanks for the good advice on lenses. OH went through the airport and bought a Nikon D60 with a VR kit lens (18 - 55mm I think) for £350 and apparently there is £60 cashback as well from Nikon. Hopefully it's a really good deal. I won't be in the market for any other lenses just yet, but will for a flashgun. Any ideas on what to get?
The camera arrives sunday night; can't wait.
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