You could tell from the 3rd episode they loved each other. They were about to die and all they could say was they were glad they met each other.

I hated that line, loved the episode though.

It jarred on me from the first moment I heard it, and almost ruined the episode.

I eventually put it down to the dalek not being able to understand love, and just saying what it thought it saw.

It IS a dalek after all.

It was my first Dalek episode and I got all the expected Extermination and angry Dalek and a suprise when it went up the stairs (yes I know now they did it in the 80s but I didn't then!)

Yet the idea that at the end the Doctor and Rose talked it into exterminating itself because it was too depressed at life as the only Dalek was a bit of a let down...

I'd heard the Daleks were emotionless ruthless killers not warbling touchy feeling metrosexu-leks.... (It even went to great lengths to restore it's outward appearance, making sure its bumps were all neat! )

I much preferred the fan theory at the time that it was duping Rose and The Doctor into thinking it was killing itself when in reality it was teleporting away....

Fortunately a few episodes later the Daleks were back to their best, killing random innocents for no reason, no Mercy just extermination! (If only the bleedin next week trailer didn't ruin their return...AWFUL...but for another thread! )

I love Dalkes too, do you like Meatlof?

I've had the Doctors Babies












































Tom Bakers Jelly Babies.....yummy too

I must admit when i rewatched i thought it was a major hint to the finale, but you have to remember that Dalek's don't have emotion and certainly dont have love. So the Dalek may just have said that to get the Doctor to act

ok-so if the Doctor loved 'our Rose' so much then why in 'Girl in the Fireplace'-when he was 'stuck on the slow path' did not he bat an eyelid about Rose being left stranded on a ship years in the future? Ok Mickey was there but as far as the Doctor knew, they couldn't fly the TARDIS or had any other means of escape?

He was quite happy to spend his days with Madame P.

Emma you're the woman I love.......

I know this is a bit irrelevant to the thread - but in relation to what emma30 said, i've often thought about the apparant abandonment of Rose and Mickey in GITF too - but I was thinking after watching Silence in the Library (the part after the Doctor sends Donna to the TARDIS), would Emergency Programme One have kicked in after so many hours? Returning Mickey and Rose home?

well love isn't always romantic in fact it most often isn't, you can love friends and family without any romantic connection you know, I'm not sure if they were in love by dalek but they certainly loved each other which was obvious to everyone including Daleks

I find it funny that people still can't handle the fact that the Doctor loved Rose, even after we saw his copy actually go off with her as a couple at the end of series 4. Just accept it! He loved her in Dalek, you can tell that he did before that.

Both BP & CE both stated that it was love at first sight for the Doctor/Rose - Watch the christmas invasion you can tell that Rose loved Doc9 && certain lines like:
"I'm coming to get you" etc shows that they loved eachother, Don't like it? tough.

Love you too Deathy

Awww Shucks.......

Nine and Rose was love at first sight - that's how RTD told the writers to write it.

Ten and Rose...well I think he needed her less and although he still loved her I don't think he was quite as clingy to her as Nine was. Girl In The Fireplace seemed to demonstrate that quite clearly to me - he would have abandoned Rose to save this other woman.

I hadnt really watched properley until the last series with Donna, so obviously I had seen the outcome of the Doctor and Rose's relationship before I borrowed my sisters dvds and rewatched the first three series, I agree about Christopher Ecclesons Dr and Rose, I didnt see any evidence of a love of attraction there, I even asked my sister 'Did she not love him until he became slightly better looking' hehe, It becomes more evident with the tenth Doctor, David Tennant is undeniably sexy and gorgeous so perhaps its easier to see because its easier for me as a woman to put myself in Roses place, or maybe it's because they just grew a bit and with the knowledge that Billie was leaving I guess they had to up the anti a bit. There was a mention in the second episode, after the christmas special, the one in new new york, Cassandra said to Rose that she knew Rose thought the new doctor was a bit tastey (or something to that effect) so I guess that was the first indication of more of an attraction growing.

With Martha, that seemed more plausible to me from the beginning, I think she was instantly inamored of the Doctor and I thought that was nicely played and written.

I know some purest dont like the 'love' aspect that has been hinted at since the come back but personally i think there's a place for it within the series, I totally agree that it shouldnt be a leading factor but to me it ups the intensity which is good for a series, because it means more is at stake. The doctor has to be alone but that doesnt mean there cant be a subtext to one or two of his companions relationships. - Ok that makes little sense.

You can tell they love eachother, theres a little element in most episodes.

Nice post I agree the Doctor being more expressive about his feelings is not the darker doctor the purests seem to like -but everyone loves a love story and viewers -the Mums and kids especially can relate to a romance angle and a more expressive Doctor .

IMO, they thought BP would be staying alot longer(maybe to series 3, maybe even to series 4 - boy that would of made the show interesting! & take a different path!) so they where going to do a slow burn love story, meaning it would be "love at first sight" but it would of grown slowly, but then with the news that BP was leaving, they had to make the love more noticable - with the random flirting comments and comments by other people.

The Confidential interviews make it pretty clear that it was love at first sight when the Ninth Doctor set his eyes on Rose right back in episode one; he would certainly have been pretty miffed if he hadn't got her on board the TARDIS. With Rose, I think it took longer but she made her own feelings crystal clear by her words, "My Doctor" in Parting of the Ways. For me, the moment in World War Three when Doc9 tells Rose, "I could save the world but lose you", is when it really hits you that he's fallen for her completely. You can see in her face that that's when it hits her too, and she rather likes it.


Other "romances" (Rose's with Captain Jack, then the Doctor's with Reinette) are simply there to show the Doctor/Rose relationship becoming progressively strengthened by seeing off challenges from rivals. The Doctor never gave Reinette (Madame P.) any encouragement except, maybe, right at the end when he believed he'd trapped himself inescapably in her time period. Even then he would have known that he'd outlive her, hang around until 2006 and hopefully find Rose again at the spot to which the TARDIS would return her. The real story here is what is going on with Rose, her visible signs of jealousy. Even Reinette picks up how she feels about him. But Rose needn't have worried; I think the Doctor felt he owed Reinette a trip on board but it's unlikely he would have taken her as a companion because that would have lifted her out of history and disrupted the timeline.

For some reason, RTD was downplaying the love between the Doctor and Rose in an interview he gave to Radio Times before this year's season finale, saying some people have massively overstated it and it really amounts to a couple of ambiguous snogs and a few hints. But who did he think he was kidding? He's been building her up as the Doctor's love interest since Season One and I'm sure he knows it. Probably he was just trying to let us down gently because he knew he had plotted a dog of an ending for her with the cop-out of an imitation Doctor for the rest of her life. Anyway, I'd give that Dalek full marks for perception! At least back then, RTD didn't want us left in any doubt that this was full-blown romantic love.

I don't understand the big deal about Rose being "just" a teenager. The thing is, this 900-year-old guy heals others yet he needed this 19-year-old to heal his soul, and she did. Nobody's done that for him before and bringing age into the calculation is just an irrelevance. 19 is young adult, and in most human cultures it's a family crisis if you are not married by then. What difference does it make to a 900-year-old time traveller whether she's 39, 29 or 19? It's a mere detail of chronology. On that sort of timescale his biological age is rather similar to hers. It's not as if she's ever lacked the ability to stand up to him and, in spite of her jealous streak, Rose is mature well beyond her years. She is courageous, resourceful, loyal, and is able to take independent charge of situations (watch her in The Satan Pit). Unlike Mickey, she didn't completely fold when faced with an alien phenomenon she couldn't comprehend; she sized up the TARDIS at once (no joke intended). Rose and the Doctor have both made acknowledgment of the age gap and (as a time traveller would) ignored it and moved on.

And, Vaughan6477, as for Ten knowing he couldn't spend the rest of his life with Rose (as he remarked in School Reunion), he soon got over that hurdle and started treating her more like a lover in subsequent episodes. It looks to me like he was showing her that by then he didn't care any more. Far better to have loved and lost...!

It's worth observing here that Doctor/Rose is a deeper relationship than sexual (though he's perfectly capable of that, as he's been a father before now) and deeper even than romantic. There's something religious or mystical about it. In the Doctor's own words: "I believe in her". Rose's love is intensely devotional and there are lots of reasons for thinking they really are soul-mates. This is what makes her different from River Song, who seems to have a looser relationship with the future Doctor, along with a faceful of flirty glances and a kinky line in handcuff humour. Steven Moffat may have River lined up as the Doctor's future wife, but she probably won't travel with him much, whereas Rose wanted to travel with him forever and he promised her that he would never leave her behind. That's why I can't understand what's happened on Journey's End and I'm not looking forward to River Song at all. She is insufferable and totally the wrong partner for the Doctor.


I think Billie made a big mistake to leave the series at the end of Season Two. I can understand why she did it, but everything she has said since then tells me that she really wants to be playing Rose again. If she'd stayed, they could have taken the Doctor/Rose relationship a LOT further. No good reason why it should not eventually have grown into partnership/marriage or whatever Gallifreyans do instead. If they're going to give the Doc a wife, what's so wrong with the obvious candidate?

well, Andy Blake, you summed it up for me. nicely done.

Totally agree with you too Andy Blake, what a brilliant summing up! Just perfect!

Thanks for that. I was preparing for an onslaught from the usual vocal minority who think Rose is lightweight or clingy or that romance has wrecked the series. IMHO she's the most important companion on DW ever and she's changed just about everything for the better.

Yes, it was/is love of a fuller kind than we've ever seen on DW before or since, and on multiple levels. So it's a real loss that the Doc/Rose story was seemingly finished in such an unsatisfying way when there is so much still-unrealised potential in Rose and in this relationship. I say "seemingly" because, as Billie keeps on hinting: this is SF, so who knows...

However they ended that, I guess, not everyone was going to be happy about it, but I agree with you totally, it all seemed so rushed. The Bad Wolf Bay, last minute or so maybe - it was unsatisfactory. They should have said goodbye at least! The joy on the Doctor's face as he ran towards Rose in the deserted street, why would he just go without a word?

Exactly. After that reunion, his reasons for leaving her in the other world with Doctor Clone make no sort of psychological sense. Neither can I understand how steadfastly loyal, devoted Rose can, within seconds, be all over the other guy when her every instinct has been telling her he's not the same man. It doesn't fit with anything else we know about Doc/Rose.

Although I do think he snuck off without a goodbye because she would have wavered again. Poor girl didn't know which way to turn so he settled it for her. You can't doubt from his face that his heart is (hearts are) breaking as he turns away from her. It also looks like he can't bear to watch her kissing the clone, even though it's what he wanted her to do.

Probably a topic for another thread. But I agree, it's all wrong. Billie said it felt wrong and she should know. Russell earns my admiration for giving life to this magnificent iconic heroine but he should still be shot for writing her an ending like that!